Are Fractal's efforts well directed?

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How many bass tones are there? Really?? Off the top of my head:

  • plonk
  • thump
  • bing
  • grind
  • ????

I've used my AF3 and a PBass tuned BEAD to cop warm Carol Kaye tones and grinding modern metal tones and everything in between. I can't imagine what sound @JH-2 is chasing that can't be reached inside a FAS box.

Does anybody know which modeller has the most bass amps? Now I'm curious...
 
JH-2, have you tried Tone Matching your Darkglass Alpha Omega? If you already have one, then you can either do that or find a suitable Amp Block to create a version of it. Or, as I've already suggested in an earlier post, you could ask for help in recreating that tone. Again, this community is a wonderful place for that.

While this doesn't address your other points, for now, it is a solution to getting that tone.
 
JH-2, have you tried Tone Matching your Darkglass Alpha Omega? If you already have one, then you can either do that or find a suitable Amp Block to create a version of it. Or, as I've already suggested in an earlier post, you could ask for help in recreating that tone. Again, this community is a wonderful place for that.

While this doesn't address your other points, for now, it is a solution to getting that tone.
i m interested in a detailed process about this. I have tried tone matching with a source in mono plugged in the axe and I dont think it s the best way to tone match . There is only a few information in the net or in the manual about tone matching and I think this option is very underrated. it can be very nice if fractal or someone experimented in tone matching does a real and detailed tutorial about tone matching with different application cause there is none . you guys does it with usb and the daw no ? we are out once again ... tonematching deserve a real place somewhere in this forum
 
He's saying that no amount of bitching will make the current products any different. They've designed them to work the way they work. What they do for Axe-Fx IV may be something different, only Fractal themselves know.
Nobody talked about the current product, I made it very clear that I was talking about the future Axe FX IV.
 
It seems that you only use the pedalboard to play live, what luck. I spend many more hours searching for a sound than playing live.

Having a large touch screen makes work much easier and on top of that I don't need a computer.
Right. I get that. But, the computer is a better interface than a small touch-screen.

It seems like an iOS/Android version of Axe-Edit would work for you, no?

IDK...I'm jumping out on a limb here, but it seems like people who are happy with the current slate of tools (front panel and axe-edit, mostly) have an easy way to use a laptop or desktop physically near where they usually play. And the people who aren't probably don't. At least personally, I will always choose a desktop over a laptop and either over a tablet or phone whenever possible.

I've "done my time" with (relatively) modern mobile tech. The smart phone has its uses, obviously. Back when I was DJing, I've made tracks on tablet groove boxes that I ended up playing live (with a laptop and controllers, including using timecode records to use turntables to control software playback). It was cool. But, it was always easier to just use the computer with the real GUI instead of the insanely compromised phone-focused GUI. And even those tablet groovebox tracks...I finished on a computer after recording them via the headphone jack. There weren't any phone/tablet apps capable of mastering (or just running a good limiter at the time), and rendering/bouncing and then getting the track off the device was, at the time, a real headache.

Mobile UIs are a compromise for everything other than "consuming content/distractions", communicating (audio, text, or AV), quick information gathering (weather, news...which is basically consuming content), or GPS. That's what they're good at. Even text communication is better with a real keyboard. And, frankly, there are other interfaces that are better at some of those.

The best GPS experience we've come up with is actually Google Glass (yes, I still own one and used it extensively for a few years) because it just presents a translucent screen in front of you without distracting your view of the road/trail/whatever. But, people generally didn't like the dorkyness of a $1500 face computer and Google didn't like that there was no way to monetize its use for the general population, apart from the initial purchase...it didn't fit their ad-focused business model. Which is sad, because it was an incredible communication + notification + GPS device.

Basically...I'm not a luddite. I've been an early adopter in the past (I think I was in the 3rd batch of people to get Glass). But, mobile interfaces are still nowhere near as flexible or usable as computer interfaces....for much of anything except consuming content, distractions, and some forms of communication.

FWIW, I mostly set up and tweak presets via the computer. But, I also mostly play in my home studio/office. If I need to tweak something when I'm away from it, the existing interface is fine. It's slower. But I can do everything I really need to. I just don't remember where some of the things are. For something like quickly tweaking an amp or "pedal" in my setup, it's easy enough to get to it via the layout screen and then edit. It's slower than having all the knobs on all the separate pedals/amps/etc.. But, that's one of the trade-offs from having something so flexible that does so much. It has 6 knobs on it....the things "inside" it have > 100. I just don't think a touch screen is going to actually do what you think it will. Maybe I'm wrong.

I agree some love should be tossed to bass players. Bass is also a guitar and with a huge push of models there is a market waiting to be tapped without a redesign.
Nobody has said that the efforts are not great, I just think that it would not be bad to also think a little more about the bassists, nothing more.
I think I agree. IDK...I don't play bass, so I haven't looked at it all that seriously.

Don't a lot of bass players already (more or less) go direct without an amp (model)? Aren't a lot of bass amps crazy high headroom and designed to be (more or less) clean and flat? What, specifically, is it missing that you would like?

The bass rigs I've seen are very simple compared to a lot of guitar rigs...it almost seems like the benefits of modeling, in general, don't apply to bass the same way they apply to guitar.

I think that's the reason very few of the high-end modelers put any real effort into bass at all. IDK...I don't play bass, so maybe I'm totally wrong.
 
Hi JH-2. Instead of waiting for the Darkglass Alpha Omega, try the very similar Blackglass 7k
There is a small difference between them but I'm sure with some small effort you can match the DAO with some tuning on the AF3.

See how similar they are:


Have you tried Austin Buddy's 200+ Bass Tonepack? Plenty of options for bass but for that last 2% you have to tweak on your own. The same is true for guitarists.
 
As for the cheap FM3, the modeling itself is very close to being equal with the Axe. That’s what I hear from the many users here that own both. Plus I jam with a guy with the Axe3. It’s missing some parameters and functions and can’t do near as much at one time. But the core quality of amp tone is still there. If I have an input, amp, cab, and output on both units you won’t be able to tell them apart. I appreciate that they care enough to not put out a model that sounds inferior to the flagship even though it’s ‘cheap’. Where other companies may be content to put out a product and milk it, FAS is always moving forward. Well directed in my opinion.

These units can do so much with all the adjustability and eq and effects. It’s just nuts really. There aren’t a lot of bass amps but these are primarily guitar based units. It’s just the way it is. Buy something else if it bugs you. I want great guitar tones and this thing does it in spades. Not concerned with the UI. I know how to use it and do use it. It’s not something I waste time thinking about. If you’re disgruntled because you don’t have a pedal then use the pedal. It takes pedals no problem. Things happen. Look, we got the Klon. You never know what’s coming but what’s already there is very good.
 
It's weird. I've had bass players come over my place to jam a few times. Two guys I know. There was never a "oh your rig wont do the job" or anything like that. They just plugged in found a cool sound and there we were.

Just my experience but bass players seem a lot more concerned about their instrument, what bass they have than what amp they are playing it through.

My favorite bass tone is from the band Bolt Thrower, where the chick who played bass for them, used a JCM800 guitar head.
 
Right. I get that. But, the computer is a better interface than a small touch-screen.

It seems like an iOS/Android version of Axe-Edit would work for you, no?

IDK...I'm jumping out on a limb here, but it seems like people who are happy with the current slate of tools (front panel and axe-edit, mostly) have an easy way to use a laptop or desktop physically near where they usually play. And the people who aren't probably don't. At least personally, I will always choose a desktop over a laptop and either over a tablet or phone whenever possible.
My ideal workflow would combine physical MIDI knob controllers with either computer/tablet editing. Fractal just does not support this in a good way in their current products so clicking with a mouse and typing numbers with a keyboard is the most straightforward way.

I felt the user interface on the Quad Cortex combined the virtual and physical aspect very well by letting you tap on things on the touchscreen but then have responsive physical knobs to adjust parameters. I don't use that product for other issues with it but its user interface paradigm worked very well.

Don't a lot of bass players already (more or less) go direct without an amp (model)? Aren't a lot of bass amps crazy high headroom and designed to be (more or less) clean and flat? What, specifically, is it missing that you would like?

The bass rigs I've seen are very simple compared to a lot of guitar rigs...it almost seems like the benefits of modeling, in general, don't apply to bass the same way they apply to guitar.

I think that's the reason very few of the high-end modelers put any real effort into bass at all. IDK...I don't play bass, so maybe I'm totally wrong.
This is true, but at the same time Fractal stuff offers very little for bassists. You have hundreds of guitar amp models but less than 10 bass amp models in comparison. It's not that you can't make it work but bassists are definitely second grade citizens on the Fractal system. It's good enough for me as a "guitarist who sometimes plays bass."

If a bassist came to me asking about a modeler, I'd point them at a Line6 HX Stomp over Fractal any day because it offers more bass-centric stuff at a much cheaper price.
 
Nobody talked about the current product, I made it very clear that I was talking about the future Axe FX IV.
First, I’ll say that you have a right to your opinion, and I respect it.

I‘ve used almost every unit FAS has created from the Axe Fx Ultra forward, including updates like the II+ XL. I’ve noted that they make version/hardware updates when they see an upgrade that doesn’t get in the way of truly professional users integrating the product. Development can be slow, but that seems to be based on actual, lengthy development before release. Even that doesn’t guarantee success, and for a small company, launching a costly product line or enhancement that isn’t strongly embraced by the player community can put you out of business when combined with the costs of supporting a product the way Fractal Audio Systems does. And it’s that last point that makes me think they are, indeed, well-directed.

They are focused on being the best professional guitar-oriented amplification/processing unit on the planet. Hence the guitar focus to everything, while they’ve left bass/keys/other as secondary concerns. They’re not hating on bass, just dealing with the realities of a limited amount of employee hours and coins. Few users would call their focus unsuccessful, and even fewer companies can claim (honestly) to match their support after the sale. RJM, another small and very focused company, is one such example. It takes that focus to do what they do.

My reply is already longer than intended, so I’ll conclude it by saying I expect the next iterations of the Axe Fx, FM9/3, or even a new device to contain functions that cannot be incorporated into the current hardware, and eminently useful to a professional guitarist, and are likely to propel sales to keep the company healthy. I don’t expect gimmicks, over-the-top all in one units, or outlandish appearance. They leave those things to others because that’s what the others do. There’s nothing wrong with either, and both have a place in the market.

I, personally, look very forward to the future products Cliff and his crew are considering… whether enhancements/upgrades or entirely new hardware. Not because it’ll be the fanciest or most inclusive, but because it is very likely to be the best at what it does. A decade of partnering with them in music creation has made me confident of that. And you just never know. They might include some of your want list too. :)

Transparency status acknowledgment: Axe Fx III Turbo user, who is also back on the FM9 Turbo waiting list (as an addition, not a III replacement). Fractal user since 2011.
 
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Nobody talked about the current product, I made it very clear that I was talking about the future Axe FX IV.

Am I mistaken in my belief that you're still using the Axe-Fx II?
No problem with that of course, but what's the foundation for your findings about the III, FM3 and FM9?
 
Hi JH-2. Instead of waiting for the Darkglass Alpha Omega, try the very similar Blackglass 7k
There is a small difference between them but I'm sure with some small effort you can match the DAO with some tuning on the AF3.

See how similar they are:


Have you tried Austin Buddy's 200+ Bass Tonepack? Plenty of options for bass but for that last 2% you have to tweak on your own. The same is true for guitarists.


yep, as a mini game I just started with a completely different pedal in the axe to try to have a "darkglass" type based on the video . then depends on the bass too for this music genre (mid 90 musicman stingray here)

 
@JH-2 If you are still using the Axe-FX II and projecting about how the use and feel of the Axe-FX III or what you want out of the IV, then that is similar to riding a horse and commenting about how the new Ferrari burns through clutches too easily.

You are commenting about things for which you have no personal experience with the advance in technology.

One thing that I would advise is to change your communication style, as you will be more persuasive.

Your opinion is not everyone's reality.

Your opinion is not everyone's preference.

What is said on The Gear Page, some random Facebook group, or a particular forum does not represent a majority of players usually.

Your experience with a piece of gear may not be representative of everyone's experience.

I don't expect Fractal to put every pedal that I desire into the unit as a model. That's why I have 4 physical pedals still. If your argument is about limited space, then if you are still monitoring through an SVT 8x10 rather than a smaller and more lightweight FRFR, which do you think takes up more size and weight?

What other modeler would you transition to that would fulfill your needs as a bass player? Have you tried the Helix? Have you tried the QC?
 
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Am I mistaken in my belief that you're still using the Axe-Fx II?
No problem with that of course, but what's the foundation for your findings about the III, FM3 and FM9?
Am I mistaken in my belief that you're still using the Axe-Fx II?
No problem with that of course, but what's the foundation for your findings about the III, FM3 and FM9?
I currently use the Axe Fx III but I also have the II. If the FM9 had been smaller, I would have bought it too, but it's huge.
 
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My ideal workflow would combine physical MIDI knob controllers with either computer/tablet editing. Fractal just does not support this in a good way in their current products so clicking with a mouse and typing numbers with a keyboard is the most straightforward way.

I felt the user interface on the Quad Cortex combined the virtual and physical aspect very well by letting you tap on things on the touchscreen but then have responsive physical knobs to adjust parameters. I don't use that product for other issues with it but its user interface paradigm worked very well.


This is true, but at the same time Fractal stuff offers very little for bassists. You have hundreds of guitar amp models but less than 10 bass amp models in comparison. It's not that you can't make it work but bassists are definitely second grade citizens on the Fractal system. It's good enough for me as a "guitarist who sometimes plays bass."

If a bassist came to me asking about a modeler, I'd point them at a Line6 HX Stomp over Fractal any day because it offers more bass-centric stuff at a much cheaper price.
All that is fair.

I'm always going to prefer physical buttons like the Nav keys to a touch-screen on a device like this. Very few touch screens I've used rise above the "useless crap" level.

I'm not opposed to them to the point of not buying some future fractal because it has one....but I do hate them to the point that if it has one, I may have to put in a feature request for a way to disable it in the config. Or taking it apart and removing the touch screen connection (assuming it's separate from the display connection).
 
@JH-2 If you are still using the Axe-FX II and projecting about how the use and feel of the Axe-FX III or what you want out of the IV, then that is similar to riding a horse and commenting about how the new Ferrari burns through clutches too easily.

You are commenting about things for which you have no personal experience with the advance in technology.

One thing that I would advise is to change your communication style, as you will be more persuasive.

Your opinion is not everyone's reality.

Your opinion is not everyone's preference.

What is said on The Gear Page, some random Facebook group, or a particular forum does not represent a majority of players usually.

Your experience with a piece of gear may not be representative of everyone's experience.

I don't expect Fractal to put every pedal that I desire into the unit as a model. That's why I have 4 physical pedals still. If your argument is about limited space, then if you are still monitoring through an SVT 8x10 rather than a smaller and more lightweight FRFR, which do you think takes up more size and weight?

What other modeler would you transition to that would fulfill your needs as a bass player? Have you tried the Helix? Have you tried the QC?
You are speaking without knowing and with assumptions, I think you overstepped your new Ferrari...
 
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