Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR - UPDATED 7/27/09

Missing a self-imposed deadline or taking longer then expected to get something to market generally has very little to do with customer service. Look at his record with the previous Atomic offerings to get a better sense of his customer support qualifications.
 
AndrewSimon said:
quark said:
Why all the excitement?

I'm wondering why everyone is so excited about this product? If this system is meant to be 'neutral' in that it approximates an ideal amplification system which simply multiplies the incoming waveform without distorting it in any way, then aren't there other system out there that also come close to the 'ideal' amplification system - e.g QSC, FBT, as well as others that have been discussed in this forum?

Why are we expecting this one to be the 'holy grail' of amplification systems? Do we expect something 'special' to be accomplished because of its close connection to the Axe-fx?

This is a serious question --- obviously, I am missing something and hopefully I can learn something from the more experienced members of this board.

Thanks ...
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Hmm... let's see... maybe because this whole thing was designed and hand tweaked
with one goal in mind... to make your AXE-FX sound good.

Forget "neutral" ... there is no such thing, it's just an ideal.

:roll:
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Seriously, it's clear that unless you get into the uber-expensive FRFR stuff you might not really be getting coaxial, neutral, best of breed FRFR. I mean, the designers of this are also the designers of the original unit so I would venture to say they should have a good handle on creating a perfect mate to the AxeFX.
Regarding traditionalists not being able to get around the traditional guitar cab form factor, I disagree. I much prefer having the rack sit on top of the cab, not next to a wedge. Also for backline (ie. behind you) I don't see how a wedge is better than cab. When you are gigging and everything is through the PA, don't people usually use IEM's or wedges sending the entire mix in front.
In any case, I'm pretty stoked. I wish it was cheaper, but I was leaning towards the high side of the spectrum anyway. Time to sell something :roll:
 
airbus said:
dk_ace said:
If you have any experience in pro-level (or even worse, consumer level) live sound equipment, then you'll know without a doubt that flat is NOT flat!
D
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Yes, of course there is no such thing as absolute flat but that is the ideal. Of course no two solutions are going to sound exactly alike (as I stated in my post). Nevertheless, you are not talking about the difference between a Fender and a Marshall. High quality flat response systems will give you the same fundamental sound. Bottom line, I am hopeful that the new Atomic FR will be a good solution and look forward to hearing it.

FYI, the only reason I mentioned solid state is for maintenance and reliability. Tubes are more fragile and require more maintenance - bottom line. It isn't a deal breaker for me though.
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First, I wasn't picking on you. You were the third and last person to make such a statement, so I just quoted your post.

As to how big the difference can be between FRFR cabs, don't kid yourself. Comparing it to Fender vs. Marshall isn't apples to apples, but I've experienced differences every bit that dramatic in the context of the FRFR world. My experience is quite limited compared to someone such as Jay Mitchell, but I can hear a substantial difference between boxes. Even nice, high quality boxes have quite different sound properties from one model to the next.

The whole point is this: The Fratomic will almost certainly sound quite different from the QSC or the FBT. Whether or not they're better or worse remains to be seen and is subjective. I'm confident that if you were to A/B the three of them, the differences would be fairly pronounced.

D
 
Sure thing, but instead of this FRFR, (Fratomic) I would like to see Fractal Audio going in directions such as like the new small and very powerful ZT LUNCHBOX amp instead. Sure thing, those may cater towards technologies that doesn't fit within Tom's ideas, such as DSP's between preamps and poweramps to produce "something", but anyway, amp and speaker tightly knit together, and just some of the Axe-FX Ultra modelling/chips thrown into it, then I think it will be wonderful. Oh, and low weight too. I would be more intrigued by something more portable. If ZT can put out anything with that volume and tone without limiting artifacts (otherwise so common on ss and switched power amps) at a 6 inch speaker, I would be scared of what Fractal Audio could do, if they'd make a plunge into those things. It would leave all the others (amp makers) bowing their heads in shame/embarrassment.
 
Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

Tom King said:
REACTOR FR UPDATE: 7/27/09

Good news! I’m in China to oversee production for the Reactor FR. I just got here and will be going over to our CM (contract manufacturer) tomorrow to do QC on main part of the run. Production actually officially started a little over a week ago. Sub assemblies and incoming QC are well on their way to being done and will get a thorough going over before final assembly starts.

So what does this mean to those waiting for an FR? Well, the production process should take approximately another two weeks at which point the shipping containers will be ready to be loaded. After that, it will be approximately 1 month in transit - assuming there are no delays in customs clearance. This has us shipping to customers sometime after the 1st week of September.

I will keep you posted. Maybe I’ll take a few pics of the process and post them up as things progress.

-TK
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I just read Tom's comments above... and I would have thought that since Atomic and Fractal Audio became essentially one company that it would have meant that all future hardware/software would be engineered and manufactured in the good ol' U.S. of A.... But I guess not... :(

made-in-china.jpg
 
People are moaning about the price already. Guess what it would cost to have it made in the USA? I venture at least double. I'm on the list but currently I can't afford one. And I will not go into debt for guitar gear.


BTW it would still have Chinese parts because some stuff they don't even make in the US anymore.


Go, Tom!
 
Re: Announcement: Atomic Reactor FR

I just read Tom's comments above... and I would have thought that since Atomic and Fractal Audio became essentially one company that it would have meant that all future hardware/software would be engineered and manufactured in the good ol' U.S. of A.... But I guess not... :(

made-in-china.jpg
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Yep the classic example of the American flag made in China. I remember when I first saw one over 10 years ago and was shocked...now nothing surprises me. I would have paid possibly up to 200 dollars more just to see the Atomic FR constructed in the USA, with our economy in the sh*ter right now. Just tired of this country importing so much from China. But I can't complain about saving myself some much needed cash. :roll: I will still be buying it of course.
 
Badabing! Yeah I read Tom's latest message and one word turned me off from it not that might ever need or want a fractomic: China. That in itself means I will never own said product. The quality won't be there long term no matter what and there will be lead or some shit in the construction where it don't belong that makes it a hazzard. I avoid China stuff as best can and always when I know the source. Nothing personal against the Chinese, but history of quality product and recalls speaks for itself. Then there is the politics of that country, but that is another matter. Perhaps they can get good deal shipping fractomic and l6 in the same metal container.
 
Charlie Wardick said:
Badabing! Yeah I read Tom's latest message and one word turned me off from it not that might ever need or want a fractomic: China. That in itself means I will never own said product. The quality won't be there long term no matter what and there will be lead or some shit in the construction where it don't belong that makes it a hazzard. I avoid China stuff as best can and always when I know the source. Nothing personal against the Chinese, but history of quality product and recalls speaks for itself. Then there is the politics of that country, but that is another matter. Perhaps they can get good deal shipping fractomic and l6 in the same metal container.
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Because 'Made in the USA' has never had a recall, or quality control problems...

I'm all for 'Made in the USA', but neither will I AVOID something because it's made in China.
 
electronpirate said:
Charlie Wardick said:
Badabing! Yeah I read Tom's latest message and one word turned me off from it not that might ever need or want a fractomic: China. That in itself means I will never own said product. The quality won't be there long term no matter what and there will be lead or some shit in the construction where it don't belong that makes it a hazzard. I avoid China stuff as best can and always when I know the source. Nothing personal against the Chinese, but history of quality product and recalls speaks for itself. Then there is the politics of that country, but that is another matter. Perhaps they can get good deal shipping fractomic and l6 in the same metal container.
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Because 'Made in the USA' has never had a recall, or quality control problems...

I'm all for 'Made in the USA', but neither will I AVOID something because it's made in China.
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I always thought this set of videos was interesting, for better or worse.
"Audiotechnology Magazine presents Behringer Factory" (Zhong Shan, China)
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqUGLUJF7y4&fmt=18
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LKnQl8gbkQ&fmt=18
(yes, I know, "Behringer" -- the narrator addresses that point almost immediately)

I am curious though, Tom, what was the factory like?
 
Made in China doesn't necessarily mean the quality of the product will be bad (nor does made in the USA mean it is good for that matter). While there are more bad factories in China than good, there are still a lot of good ones. It is really a matter of understanding the culture and having experience working with factories over there. Especially if the product is largely a hardware based product (that doesn't require software coding/customization) - there are some excellent PCB and assembly shops over there.

BTW - the Behringer factory is a dream compared to some of the factories I've visited in Shenzhen.
 
All the Blackstar Amplifications stuff is made in China and thats getting TOP reviews both on sound, feel and construction.

A Lot of the new VOX stuff is made there too.

You get what you pay for. Many companies making stuff there do it because of cheap parts and labour. You get cheap products.

However, Labout IS cheap - and as long as the componants are good, and QC is good you get an excellent product a lot cheaper than made in US (or made in UK as thats where I am).

Thats a bad thing for jobs/economy etc in the "western world" but pretty good for consumers.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
All the Blackstar Amplifications stuff is made in China and thats getting TOP reviews both on sound, feel and construction.

A Lot of the new VOX stuff is made there too.

You get what you pay for. Many companies making stuff there do it because of cheap parts and labour. You get cheap products.

However, Labout IS cheap - and as long as the components are good, and QC is good you get an excellent product a lot cheaper than made in US (or made in UK as thats where I am).

Thats a bad thing for jobs/economy etc in the "western world" but pretty good for consumers.
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You've hit on a key point I've alluded to, but you've stated more succinctly - quality control processes. Good factories have them and experienced US/EU companies know how to manage them in Chinese factories. Inexperienced companies will suffer setbacks, poor yields, failures in the field, etc. and miss US/EU retail windows...guaranteed.

And if you think China has changed the "Western World" wait till India's manufacturing infrastructure takes off (which has been software dev and call centers to date). What chance does the West have against 40% of the global population vying for cheap manufacturing jobs? Happy happy, joy joy... :)

Back to the FRFR....hopefully Tom and Cliff have managed overseas manufacturing before so the fact that they're making it China is okay with me.
 
hdtv4me said:
And if you think China has changed the "Western World" wait till India's manufacturing infrastructure takes off (which has been software dev and call centers to date). What chance does the West have against 40% of the global population vying for cheap manufacturing jobs? Happy happy, joy joy... :)
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This is not necessarily a bad thing for the Western World. It will force us to adapt. Just think, what percentage of US jobs 100 years ago was agriculture? I don't know the exact number, but it was very very high. And now... very very small. Urbanization and increased industrialization forced the shift away from agriculture. I think the same thing will happen over the next 100 years... a shift away from manufacturing to something else. It will have to.
 
mwc2112 said:
hdtv4me said:
And if you think China has changed the "Western World" wait till India's manufacturing infrastructure takes off (which has been software dev and call centers to date). What chance does the West have against 40% of the global population vying for cheap manufacturing jobs? Happy happy, joy joy... :)
Click to expand...

This is not necessarily a bad thing for the Western World. It will force us to adapt. Just think, what percentage of US jobs 100 years ago was agriculture? I don't know the exact number, but it was very very high. And now... very very small. Urbanization and increased industrialization forced the shift away from agriculture. I think the same thing will happen over the next 100 years... a shift away from manufacturing to something else. It will have to.
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EXACTLY!

We, as Americans bemoan the whole 'moving offshore' thing, but the bottom line is that as Shareholders, we expect high profits, but as workers, we expect the jobs to stay HERE. Those 2 don't play well together. Unions, Cost of Living, 'edge of legality' Management, and a sense of entitlement that we deserve high wages and low hours. They all force a company to build outside of the US. Small operations, no problem, larger ones, too expensive to stay here.

Adapt, make better products, make DIFFERENT products, whatever.

Fight back by being better.

IMO. YMMV. <Insert smiley face that takes the edge off of my words...>
 
Let's get back to the topic please.

My hope is that there is a passive version some time down the road. Maybe even a SS version (which would be my ultimate).

The big question is: Who's on first????
 
I'm not on the list yet, but I'm psyched. I've convinced myself to live with my current solutions for the time being and wait for the verdict on the Fracta/Atomic solution. One of my biggest revelations in sound came when I purchased a Scott 60's tube integrated amp (299c I think) in the early 90's. I had some pretty nice solid state stuff, a Harmon Kardon 100 wpc SS power amp and a Phase Linear SS preamp. I put on a Sonny Rollins album. It sounded like a recording of a sax on the SS gear. I switched out and ran the Scott. It sounded like Sonny Rollins in my living room.

That's why I'm really psyched that they chose to use a tube power section. I think they might've been able to achieve the sense of "realism" with a SS solution, but I think tubes, particularly in the power section bring a presence and aliveness that's just harder to do with SS. I was taking lessons a few years ago from Mike Elliott who was the top jazz guitarist in the Minneapolis area in the 60's and 70's. He later moved to Nashville and was a session guy for a bunch of years. While I was studying with him, he did a jazz album where he played all the parts with midi. It is a pretty amazing accomplishment even if some of the sounds are a little cheesy. What he was really proud of though was the guitar tone which he thought sounded as good as any jazz guitar tone ever recorded. He had a fairly complicated signal chain for his guitar and it did sound really great. It was all tracked direct. What I do remember is that he used a Fender stereo tube power amp (can't remember model...Red-faced Twin era thing) and a Hughes and Kettner Redbox as part of the signal chain.

He'd talk about how all the people doing solid state amps with tube preamps had things completely ass backwards in terms of where it was important to have the tubes. I tend to agree. I love my Musicman amps and they're solid state front end, tube power. So, I'm delighted they used tubes. If they hadn't, I probably would've bought a Verve 8ma or 12ma. As it is, I'm making do with a Tech 21 Power Wedge 60 and a couple of ok powered monitors and waiting for the reports.

Mike
 
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