Amp in a Room vs Studio Recorded Tones

BBN said:
This is an interesting conversation, so I'm going to throw a question out there, just to get peoples opinions and reactions.

If you take a XiTone powered wedge that has the Matrix Amp Module (that is the same power amp as their GT series), and you pull the Eminence 'PA Speaker' and put a Celestion V30 in there....do you consider it 'Amp in the Room'?
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What signal are you sending to this cab? One with a Cab block and cabinet modeling enabled? Or with no Cab block?

If there were no Cab block, it would be a Cab in the room... Because it's just a (non-traditional) guitar speaker in a cabinet with a built-in power amp.

If there is a Cab block and cabinet modeling enabled, I would calling it a really bad FRFR :)
 
unix-guy said:
If you like that, more power to you... But I don't think most people here would recommend that.
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Whys that? Why not have options and just do it! I think a lot of confusion with this room debate can come from a setup standpoint; how the axe is actually being ran. It's a 4CM setup but running ALL sims on with a "real" amp. Man it can sound killer! I have a bunch of Deftones patches I posted on here somewhere awhile back with this set up. But hey this is the AxeFx, there are NO RULES!!
 
Billbill said:
Whys that? Why not have options and just do it! I think a lot of confusion with this room debate can come from a setup standpoint; how the axe is actually being ran. It's a 4CM setup but running ALL sims on with a "real" amp. Man it can sound killer! I have a bunch of Deftones patches I posted on here somewhere awhile back with this set up. But hey this is the AxeFx, there are NO RULES!!
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I’m a believer in if it works it works.. doesn’t really matter how ya get there. Use your ears not your eyes or preconceived notions.
 
Billbill said:
Whys that? Why not have options and just do it! I think a lot of confusion with this room debate can come from a setup standpoint; how the axe is actually being ran. It's a 4CM setup but running ALL sims on with a "real" amp. Man it can sound killer! I have a bunch of Deftones patches I posted on here somewhere awhile back with this set up. But hey this is the AxeFx, there are NO RULES!!
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Why? Because that is not a recommended setup... again, if you like it, that's great!

There is nothing about the "room debate" that has to do with Axe Fx setup beyond using a traditional cab with no Cab block, or using an FRFR cab with a Cab block.

The presets you shared might sound great... But unless somebody else is using the same amp and cab as you are, they probably won't sound the same for them.
 
Rock n’ Roll has never been about recommended setups. Amps were supposed to have plenty of clean headroom. Distortion was something you didn’t want. Luckily guys started pushing amps past the poo t of breakup, lowly becasue they couldn’t afford an amp with enough clean headroom at a certain output level and made it work.

Plenty in the audience said “hey, your doing it wrong” but it worked and now almost every purposely buys amps deigned to saturate and distort on purpose with whole genres of music based around it

Luckily with the axe ‘breaking’ the rules doesn’t result in any physical damage to equipment lol
 
unix-guy said:
But unless somebody else is using the same amp and cab as you are, they probably won't sound the same for them.
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True, BUT I believe because of the fact that I'm pumping a cab sim custom IR through a cab helps them translate much better, regardless of setup with minimal tweaking. GEQ is your friend
 
Billbill said:
True, BUT I believe because of the fact that I'm pumping a cab sim custom IR through a cab helps them translate much better, regardless of setup with minimal tweaking. GEQ is your friend
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Not only will it not translate well without the same amp and cab, it may not translate well for other reasons, such as the acoustic space you're listening to it in and the guitar / pickups you're using.
 
Jason Scott said:
Not only will it not translate well without the same amp and cab.....
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This is the same for any preset created by someone using their guitar cab. The user needs to have the same cab or it will not sound the same.

Jason Scott said:
.... it may not translate well for other reasons, such as the acoustic space you're listening to it in and the guitar / pickups you're using.
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This is the same for any preset created in the Axe. Patches I make with my Les Paul, don't sound the same with my Strat...this is nothing new. And none of this is unique to what Bill is doing.

How is what Bill is doing (using an IR) any different than using a PEQ in his patch?
The IR adds color...just like a PEQ filter.
In fact, there are threads on here where people were using PEQ instead of a Cab block with their FRFR solution.

I don't see Bill's method as being any different.
 
lqdsnddist said:
Rock n’ Roll has never been about recommended setups. Amps were supposed to have plenty of clean headroom. Distortion was something you didn’t want. Luckily guys started pushing amps past the poo t of breakup, lowly becasue they couldn’t afford an amp with enough clean headroom at a certain output level and made it work.

Plenty in the audience said “hey, your doing it wrong” but it worked and now almost every purposely buys amps deigned to saturate and distort on purpose with whole genres of music based around it

Luckily with the axe ‘breaking’ the rules doesn’t result in any physical damage to equipment lol
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Words of wisdom.
 
BBN said:
This is the same for any preset created by someone using their guitar cab. The user needs to have the same cab or it will not sound the same.
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They also need to be in the same position relative to the cab and in the same acoustic space.

BBN said:
This is the same for any preset created in the Axe. Patches I make with my Les Paul, don't sound the same with my Strat...this is nothing new. And none of this is unique to what Bill is doing.
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That's true, however your guitar isn't directional.

BBN said:
How is what Bill is doing (using an IR) any different than using a PEQ in his patch?
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If you like how it sounds it's irrelevant, though a PEQ has far fewer bands than most IR's.

BBN said:
The IR adds color...just like a PEQ filter. In fact, there are threads on here where people were using PEQ instead of a Cab block with their FRFR solution.
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I often use an amp block without a cab block and think it sounds great with respect to clean tones, however what does any of this have to do with the comments in my previous post?
 
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Instead of spending a lot of time on a PEQ I’d just do a tone match then you’ll essentially have a frequency matched equalization curve which can replace the EQ and the IR
 
BBN said:
eset created by someone using their guitar cab. The user needs to have the same cab or it will not sound
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That is one of the advantages of FRFR - much more consistency between cabs... Because they are flat.

Presets I created on my Xitones translate very well to my bassist's AccuGroove Latte cabs, and to my buddy's Gemini 2.

If I created presets using my pine, open back 2x12 cab with Budda Phat 12 speakers, they are not going to translate well to your Marshall 4x12 with V30 speakers.
 
I would say they aren’t going to translate accurately, but still might subjectively sound good.

I’ve used setting meant for a different guitar, different cab etc and sometimes liked the tone better than the reference one. Other times it sounded awful, but my idea of awful might be someone’s ideal tone.

Or someone else’s guitar and the “wrong” cab might cancel out, so to speak, with the two wrongs making one right, as far as final tone goes.

As has been said, if it sounds good, then it is good. We just can’t agree on what “good”’means.
 
“Good” for me would be to have the Axe sound as close to the actual amp being modeled. Without some sorts of reference it is hard to know. I can say that the AC15 in the Axe is not close to my real amp but there are all sorts of caveats to that as it is Amp in room vs recorded sound signal.
 
App12 said:
I can say that the AC15 in the Axe is not close to my real amp but there are all sorts of caveats to that as it is Amp in room vs recorded sound signal.
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So you can't say much, since you're comparing apples to oranges ;)
 
App12 said:
As I mentioned in another thread, I showed up to band rehearsal with $2,500 worth of Axe and K12 and a new guitarist showed up with a $600 AC15. It was no comparison head to head so went and bought myself one. Within the context of the other instruments and with its onboard effects the Axe does offer some advantages but for just having fun playing I really love the real amp. One or two commented that they had the same issue with Vox sounds in the Axe II so it may just be this amp model. If so, hopefully it will be updated.
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Personally, I would have tried a few tricks to see what it would take to get the Axe with FRFR to sound more like the AC15. Maybe tone-matching?
 
StickMan said:
Personally, I would have tried a few tricks to see what it would take to get the Axe with FRFR to sound more like the AC15. Maybe tone-matching?
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Yes. Thank you for a sensible reply! I will definitely try that but just have not had the time. Also want to try shoot my own IR and see how that sounds.
 
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