Amp in a Room vs Studio Recorded Tones

[666was999]

I capture my own IRs, and presets are simple input -> amp -> mono cab -> output. The IRs aren't available at the moment, although I am going to put together a collection when I have captured a few more IRs and finished an album I'm working on, which I am prioritising over IR acquisition right now due to limited free time. I will eventually make them available though

Ok. Thanks. I hope you get some free time soon.

 

[666was999]

It's not simply about perception, the room or position of the speaker. It's primarily about one factor which can't be removed from the equation; the microphone. Place an FRFR in the same room and position as a cab, and the difference between the two will come down to one being a direct signal vs. the other having been captured with a mic.

Microphones exist that have a totally flat response curve, like the Earthworks TC30.
The Redwirez collections contains many shots made with them. These IRs don't make any special AITR sound. So it's not the mics response curve that is the missing link to AITR.
The main problem is the small window of the speaker that the mic sees. Maybe one should put a larger number of these FRFR mics in front of the speaker and mix an IR of that...maybe that could work.

 

[Jason Scott]

Microphones exist that have a totally flat response curve, like the Earthworks TC30.
The Redwirez collections contains many shots made with them. These IRs don't make any special AITR sound. So it's not the mics response curve that is the missing link to AITR. The main problem is the small window of the speaker that the mic sees. Maybe one should put a larger number of these FRFR mics in front of the speaker and mix an IR of that...maybe that could work.

Even when mixing multiple IR's created with reference mics positioned at various distances, it doesn't sound like a reproduction of the original cab to my ears. Additionally, odds are against your monitors (studio or otherwise) being flat.

 

[lqdsnddist]

I think its a bit easy to lose the plot so to speak...

Can the Axe sound great live ? Yes, tons of bands are putting on amazing show using it. Metaliica, Brit Floyd, Jimmy Eats World... etc etc. Can the Axe sound great recorded ? Again, Yes, too many amazing recordings to even list have been done with it.

To which, if the end result sounds good, does the rest of it really matter all that much ? Its good and fun as an academic debate, but if one can't plug the Axe into the PA and put on a great live show, or if one can't just plug in the USB audio and lay down a great sounding guitar track, then the issue really isn't with the hardware, put rather with the person playing, because we've all heard great sounding examples of the Axe live and recorded. It works, and it works great.

 

[StickMan]

Even when mixing multiple IR's created with reference mics positioned at various distances, it doesn't sound like a reproduction of the original cab to my ears. Additionally, odds are against your monitors (studio or otherwise) being flat.

I think that the problem with far-field IR's is that they produce a far-field sound at your FRFR cone - which, of course, is some distance away from your ears. So if the idea is to capture what your ears would hear if you were listening to a real cab in the room, then you'd need to have that sound produced right beside your ears (ie. headphones). Otherwise, you're going to be hearing a far field version of a far field sound as the sound interacts with your room on it's way to your ears. And of course, your room isn't going to affect the sound the same way that the room that the IR was recorded, either.

 

[Jason Scott]

I think that the problem with far-field IR's is that they produce a far-field sound at your FRFR cone - which, of course, is some distance away from your ears. So if the idea is to capture what your ears would hear if you were listening to a real cab in the room, then you'd need to have that sound produced right beside your ears (ie. headphones). Otherwise, you're going to be hearing a far field version of a far field sound as the sound interacts with your room on it's way to your ears. And of course, your room isn't going to affect the sound the same way that the room that the IR was recorded, either.

Even when recording with a measurement mic several feet away from the speaker, the sound coming out is very different in different directions.

 

[Billbill]

sound coming out is very different in different directions.

This is law of physics is it not? Sound changes depending on distance because the vibrations that are moving air molecules (aka sound waves) are constantly changing as your distance changes when you're moving while listening. Has nothing to do with FRFR or greenbacks or whatever

 

[blearyeyes]

Seems that the one thing that is left out is the ability of your hearing/brain to calculate position from the timing of reflected sound waves. Microphones or not. Flat or not. I still say it's all about the lack of sensory translation. So until there is a way to input that information directly into the brain, the timing of reflected sound waves interpreted into positional data points is absent.

 

[Jason Scott]

This is law of physics is it not? Sound changes depending on distance because the vibrations that are moving air molecules (aka sound waves) are constantly changing as your distance changes when you're moving while listening.

It's different because sound is reflected around the room and likewise influenced by the resonances in it.

Has nothing to do with FRFR or greenbacks or whatever

It has something to do with it. Accuracy of recorded audio in a playback system is partly a function of what you're listening through.