Adventures in Accuracy

spikey said:
To me, it's kinda like a tire with raised lettering & good tread on the outside but bad steel-belted design issues on the inside. There are a lot of people who just won't care about the inside of that tire because it looks so good on that hotrod of theirs...;)
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I find it a bit, er, "disappointing" that the Fender reps are dodging the question about those "belts". Tell the truth, then let people know if you plan on addressing their concerns. It's not that difficult.
 
Frodebro said:
They are still doing pretty well, and they also have their guitars. but the 800lb gorilla in the room is the future availability of vacuum tubes. Look at where they come from, and look at how things currently are with those countries. That’s not a reassuring situation for any of the major tube amp manufacturers, and the small guys doing the boutique stuff are probably crapping their pants as well.
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Good point. I still remember the moment I switched from a Boss GT-6 to a Fender HRD. The conversion to tube snobberism was instantaneous. I was so excited the first time I ordered my own JJ’s! 😂

If tubes are going extinct, it makes me all the more grateful that they are preserved in a meaningful way. We don’t just have a cheap waveform fiddler, we have someone who is passionate about accuracy and knows how to recreate them.
 
It certainly looks like a nice piece of gear, and I would be happy to have one. I'd prefer an FM3 for smaller gigs but they are hard to come by new here down under!

EDIT: they're about the same price as an FM3 here too... I would much rather a Fractal (HINT HINT SEND SUPPLIES)
 
Frodebro said:
I find it a bit, er, "disappointing" that the Fender reps are dodging the question about those "belts". Tell the truth, then let people know if you plan on addressing their concerns. It's not that difficult.
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FYI - Just saw an answer from a Fender Rep on TGP. He says they are "NOT" using resistive modeling. Thats good to know but... I told him thanks for the clarification. Thats pretty much all "I" could do at this point lol...
 
I have a friend that recently bought the Fender modeler. I attended one of his band’s rehearsals last night. I realize that this is Fender’s first attempt at manufacturing a stand-alone modeler, and that my friend only recently received his unit so he isn’t very experienced using it, but, I thought the model, cab and effects models sounded only mediocre, similar to the Headrush Pedalboard I owned before I bought my Axe Fx III. I was not alone in my assessment, his band mates weren’t thrilled either. So, I think that Fender has a long way to go if they want to attract serious players...no other modelers come close to those made by Fractal!
 
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Frodebro said:
. but the 800lb gorilla in the room is the future availability of vacuum tubes.
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Been thinking a lot about this recently. I’ve got enough of a tube stockpile to run tube amps 5-10 more years but may be time to cut losses and sell it all now while there’s still a market.
 
Building a new modeler to “Fractal quality” is a very tall order. I’m not convinced that others can do that, even if given years to do it. The level of knowledge and expertise that Cliff has in how this stuff works and how to model it is truly astonishing, and I doubt that there is anyone else at his level. How can someone else make a better modeler if they don’t know how? Doesn’t matter how much money or people they throw at it. Other companies can’t compete on modeling quality, so they have to compete on a sleek design, user friendly interface, or price point.
 
giantslayer said:
Building a new modeler to “Fractal quality” is a very tall order. I’m not convinced that others can do that, even if given years to do it. The level of knowledge and expertise that Cliff has in how this stuff works and how to model it is truly astonishing, and I doubt that there is anyone else at his level. How can someone else make a better modeler if they don’t know how? Doesn’t matter how much money or people they throw at it. Other companies can’t compete on modeling quality, so they have to compete on a sleek design, user friendly interface, or price point.
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One thing that's interesting to me, going back to 2008 when I bought an OG Axe-FX Std, Cliff has posted tons of technical info on the proper way to approach modelling amps and effects. Sure the specific code and details remain his. But he has clearly presented a road map for what is important, and why it's important in creating accurate models. All freely available on the forum. Baking the impedance curve in the IR's is something I remember RedWirez doing circa 2009. In 2023 it's a sign of engineers that just don't know (or care) what they're doing.
 
I am a new Fractal customer, having only joined the fraternity in January of 2023. However, during that very short time period I have seen Cliff and his team develop and release multiple very substantial updates for my Axe Fx III. In my experience, no other company that I have ever done business with has undertaken this level of effort and commitment to increasing the quality and value of their products after the sale has been made. There is no additional revenue to be gained by Fractal when they provide these updates for the most part…it is we, his customers who benefit. This is customer support that goes way beyond normal, actually way beyond extraordinary. The only explanation that makes sense is that the extraordinary level of effort Cliff and his team (including all the official and unofficial beta testers) put forth is because to them it’s a labor of love of the technology and the pride they feel when we Fractal users love our units and make great music with them. This is why no other modeler developer can develop modelers of the quality that Fractal can…companies run by bean counters don’t work this way.
 
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randocaster said:
One thing that's interesting to me, going back to 2008 when I bought an OG Axe-FX Std, Cliff has posted tons of technical info on the proper way to approach modelling amps and effects. Sure the specific code and details remain his. But he has clearly presented a road map for what is important, and why it's important in creating accurate models. All freely available on the forum. Baking the impedance curve in the IR's is something I remember RedWirez doing circa 2009. In 2023 it's a sign of engineers that just don't know (or care) what they're doing.
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I think knowing that it is best to model the impedance of a real speaker interacting with the power amp and knowing how to do that are two very different things. If I’m not mistaken, the resistive load is just a box that you can plug a powered amp signal into to capture it without blowing up the amp or your interface. Very easy to do and requires no knowledge of how to model the interaction because it is physically taking place in that physical box.

I also wonder how much of their approach is profiling rather than modeling. Fractal has painstakingly created algorithms to model every component in an amp and how they interact with each other, so it can create that interaction between the speaker impedance and power amp, transformers, etc. Heck, Cliff has put more hours into modeling the cathode follower than some companies have put into creating their whole modeling process. With a profiler like a Kemper, you are starting with a cake that is fully cooked, so you can’t accurately model how changing an ingredient in the batter would make a different cake.
 
I tried the whole evening to dial in good tones. Something was off but I could not put my finger on it. Then I read this thread, and then I saw Leon Todd's video this morning. My TMP is now in the box and ready for return. After what Cliff found and then Leon's video today, I think I'd be a fool to keep it. Thanks to BOTH Cliff and Leon for the heads-up!

And if by chance you missed this...


 
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spikey said:
I tried the whole evening to dial in good tones. Something was off but I could not put my finger on it. Then I read this thread, and then I saw Leon Todd's video this morning. My TMP is now in the box and ready for return. After what Cliff found and then Leon's video today, I think I'd be a fool to keep it. Thanks to BOTH Cliff and Leon for the heads-up!

And if by chance you missed this...


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The problem is that you have to use fender’s inbuilt IRs for a fair comparison, as the power amp modelling is inbuilt there. This is something that fender are going to change, according to the Facebook page.

To be honest, fender TMPs fender amp models generally sound a hair better than my fm3 turbo’s when you compare it that way (at least to my ears). The non-fender amps are not as good though. Also, fractal have more desirable fender amps available, currently.
 
citadel said:
The problem is that you have to use fender’s inbuilt IRs for a fair comparison, as the power amp modelling is inbuilt there. This is something that fender are going to change, according to the Facebook page.

To be honest, fender TMPs fender amp models generally sound a hair better than my fm3 turbo’s when you compare it that way (at least to my ears). The non-fender amps are not as good though. Also, fractal have more desirable fender amps available, currently.
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I have played Fender amps for over 55 years. During that time I also modded quite a few. In my opinion, the Axe Fx Fender amp models, especially after the 23.05 FW upgrade, are spot on. Even with my great deal of experience with physical Fender amps I can not hear any difference in tone between the two. As I stated in post #168 above, my experience with the Fender TMP was just the opposite. Fender has a long way to go before they can become a contender in the modeler game and I doubt they will ever rise to the level of Fractal because Cliff and his team are the most experienced and knowledgeable engineers AND guitarists in the modeling business.
 
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