Adventures in Accuracy

Absolutely but you can’t do that because you would have to turn off specific portions of the power amp modelling for the fractal, which I don’t think could be done (not easily, at least). It’s not the entire power amp, from my understanding, just the interactions with speakers. I don’t think you can export the inbuilt IRs from the TMP also.

The point is also that you don’t have to tweak the TMP to “death”, ala your line 6 example. It’s there from the go. So I am talking about quick “out of the box” sounds.

My point is that the apples to apples test has not been done and that the only fair test you can probably do now is the “out of the box” quick tests, until fender fix their IR architecture.
I understand your point of view and am aware that the TMP’s speaker impedance problem with non-stock IR’s. That’s a design flaw on Fender’s end and I hope they’ll get it fixed if they want to join the modeler competition for real.

Why would you have to disable power amp simulation with Fractal? You should be able to get the frequency curve of the IR out of the TMP with some DAW match IR tools for an example. If there’s some other stuff going on inside the TMP speaker block that is only working with their own impulses, that is again a problem on Fender’s end.

EDIT: I think this discussion has been going around in circles for way too long. Time for more charts now? 😎
 
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I understand your point of view and am aware that the TMP’s speaker impedance problem with non-stock IR’s. That’s a design flaw on Fender’s end and I hope they’ll get it fixed if they want to join the modeler competition for real.

Why would you have to disable power amp simulation with Fractal? You should be able to get the frequency curve of the IR out of the TMP with some DAW match IR tools for an example. If there’s some other stuff going on inside the TMP speaker block that is only working with their own impulses, that is again a problem on Fender’s end.

EDIT: I think this discussion has been going around in circles for way too long. Time for more charts now? 😎

yes more graphs please! It triggers the TMP fanboys.

I basically agree.

I think that the only thing you can assess now is real amp preamp (with or without IR) versus fractal and fm3 preamps (with or without IRs), until fender fix the power amp separation architecture.
 
yes more graphs please! It triggers the TMP fanboys.
Graphs like these help me sleep at nights without having to crave about getting another modeler or new gear. Easier on the wallet when you known you already have the best gear available. Also my ears have improved a lot when you know what to listen for in amp modeling. Arguing about competetive products is another thing, but I’ve kind of had my share. Big kudos to Fractal for spilling the beans.
 
During that comparison, when one modeler is being compared to the other, to use critical components that are not provided with each modeler could provide results that do not accurately compare the two modelers.
So in the video comparison that Leon did, where the Fender TMP sounded worse (to me) and was harder to "dial in" according to Leon, my question is why would Fender release a $1600.00 Modeler that didn't have the right "critical components" in it versus the other 3 that sounded better (to me)?
 
Just for reference, the only reseller in Australia:

https://shop.independentmusic.com.au/fractal-audio-fm9-turbo/

versus

https://billyhydemusic.com.au/fender-tone-master-pro

The FM3 turbo is even more expensive than the TMP, here!

2169 USD in aus, vs 1599 USD direct from Fractal in the US. When you take into account shipping, duties and taxes, and the retailer being rewarded for his time, the markup is actually very low.

EDIT: this has been discussed and answered on the forum before.
 
So in the video comparison that Leon did, where the Fender TMP sounded worse (to me) and was harder to "dial in" according to Leon, my question is why would Fender release a $1600.00 Modeler that didn't have the right "critical components" in it versus the other 3 that sounded better (to me)?
Typical large corporation behavior. They think their past reputation and recognized name for building physical amps will allow them to release a “good enough” amp modeler and that many potential buyers will purchase one because ”it’s Fender, so it must be great” attitude. All you need to do to see this strategy working is to read some of the comments on the various YouTube review videos where the reviewer reports the modeler is lacking…some of those that have purchased the Fender TMP vehemently, and at times angrily, post rebuttal comments refuting the reviewers statements without any actual facts to support their positions.

The Fender TMP is only at its initial release, perhaps over time it will mature into a real contender in the modeler market…time will tell. catching up with companies like Fractal and Line 6 is going to be a real challenge for Fender at this late stage of advanced modeler development by the established companies.

There are few companies that provide the quality products and service that Fractal does, especially the large corporations controlled by holding company bean-counters.
 
my question is why would Fender release a $1600.00 Modeler that didn't have the right "critical components" in it versus the other 3 that sounded better
Why not?
From business perspective they need to make their stand, try a new selling strategy, test a new product, etc. Totally logical business move IMO.
Not to mention that so many us guitarists believe in the power of brand above what our ears hear, so it is only logical for them to move in this direction ASAP. In fact, they are very very late to the game, but their brand and marketing will make up for that.
And it's not like the product in really really bad, right? Just more expensive than the competition if we compare "apples to apples" - which for some can be a sign of a "premium" product.

Some people sell Fractal to get other modelers, not everyone's ear are as perfect as yours and mine (!! :)
 
[snip]
The Fender TMP is only at its initial release, perhaps over time it will mature into a real contender in the modeler market…time will tell. [snip]
I used to own a Fender CyberTwin. They didn't improve it, they made a new version, with a new name, no upgrade path except to sell and rebuy, which I didn't.

I would definitely not count on them improving the TMP significantly, or continuing to support it for very long.
 
I used to own a Fender CyberTwin. They didn't improve it, they made a new version, with a new name, no upgrade path except to sell and rebuy, which I didn't.

I would definitely not count on them improving the TMP significantly, or continuing to support it for very long.

They dropped support for the Mustang amps as well, which a LOT of people have not forgotten.
 
my question is why would Fender release a $1600.00 Modeler that didn't have the right "critical components" in it versus the other 3 that sounded better (to me)?
Fender is likely smart to get into it as they have a lot of brand loyalty and think they can make some money in that market. I think this will end up being good for Fractal. I've seen some movement from traditional amp guys that seem open to trying the Fender TMP because the Fender name lends some legitimacy in their world - it's a solid guitar brand they've known for 30/40/50 years. After making the big leap into the digital age, they'll be more apt to look around at other offerings and could end up discovering that Fractal does it better.
 
I'm curious if the new big F modeling platform is a white boxed L6 (cough cough mustang) or headrush or some other bastard child. There just just isn't that many folks out there doing guitar modeling.

I bet Cliff and Co know now exactly who is coding this hardware and which shop is building them for export.
 
Eric Johnson would (politely) say he can hear the difference, well… depending on what kind of battery was installed and if the tremolo cavity cover was taken off or not. (wink)
 
2169 USD in aus, vs 1599 USD direct from Fractal in the US. When you take into account shipping, duties and taxes, and the retailer being rewarded for his time, the markup is actually very low.

EDIT: this has been discussed and answered on the forum before.

yeah and on the flip side, why is the TMP so much cheaper? Fender also have to pay duties/taxes (10%). Let's be fair.
 
So in the video comparison that Leon did, where the Fender TMP sounded worse (to me) and was harder to "dial in" according to Leon, my question is why would Fender release a $1600.00 Modeler that didn't have the right "critical components" in it versus the other 3 that sounded better (to me)?

Again, part of it is because Fender really needs their inbuilt IRs...it doesnt work well with third party IRs. It's not a fair comparison and unfortunately, a fair comparison can only be made once Fender fixes their 3rd party IR/power amp modelling architecture issue.
 
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