A thought about the 4x12 cabs

G

guitarnerdswe

Fractal Fanatic
After having a couple of days filled with Axe tweaking, I noticed something. Why do most of the 4x12 cabs sounds so bad? :mrgreen:

Seriously, most of them are very bass-heavy and scooped sounding. My favourity IRL 4x12 cab is the Bogner 4x12 with V30s, which I owned for a couple of years. From my real life experience, I find the Bogner 4x12 cab in the Axe to have so much flubby bass it's silly, and lacking in the mids, 2 things I never ever experienced with the real deal. The Bogner 4x12 has a tight lowend, smooth highs and fat and articular mids. I just find it wierd that my favourite cab sounds more like the Recto 1 cab does IRL, and the other way around. The Recto 1 ( oversized Mesa cab) is flobby and scooped IRL, yet the Bogner 4x12 in the Axe has way less mids and more bass than the Recto 1 cab in the Axe.

Am I missing something here? :?
 
You can tweak this to your heart's delight between the amp sims and the cab sims - they all interact.

Just how are you playing / monitoring your Axe FX?
 
tonygtr said:
After having a couple of days filled with Axe tweaking, I noticed something. Why do most of the 4x12 cabs sounds so bad? :mrgreen:

Seriously, most of them are very bass-heavy and scooped sounding. My favourity IRL 4x12 cab is the Bogner 4x12 with V30s, which I owned for a couple of years. From my real life experience, I find the Bogner 4x12 cab in the Axe to have so much flubby bass it's silly, and lacking in the mids, 2 things I never ever experienced with the real deal. The Bogner 4x12 has a tight lowend, smooth highs and fat and articular mids. I just find it wierd that my favourite cab sounds more like the Recto 1 cab does IRL, and the other way around. The Recto 1 ( oversized Mesa cab) is flobby and scooped IRL, yet the Bogner 4x12 in the Axe has way less mids and more bass than the Recto 1 cab in the Axe.

Am I missing something here? :?
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Well those scooped cab you hate were added later because other people quite liked them. They don't work for me but the certainly work for the hi-gain players. There are different bogner cabs. The ubershall cab is different from the standard bogner cab. Also, the cabs are mic'd and even using a reference mic the are very position dependent on the position. The person that made the IR was probably going for that sound. The 4x12s that originally came w/ the Axe-fx (prior to the addition of several cabs) are not scooped or bass heavy.
 
I have to go along with Sean on the 4x12 cabs. Most of them definitely don't work for me either. I started playing out when you had Marshall heads with no master & a celestion cab that along with the output provided your distortion. It was a much more well rounded sound than the scooped death metal sound so many of the new groups go for. Always reminded me of the smiley face crate amp sound. Oh well, to each his own. Sound is subjective. I have actually been using some of the 2x12 cabs blended with different 4x12's in the Ultra to get a more balanced sound. Just give it time.... I'm sure there will be more cab sims to come plus user IRLs to download. :mrgreen: ,
 
The Brit 4x12 is all that I use (and some G12 stuff in stereo).

I'm sure there are IR's out there that would do the trick, but the whole process of auditioning these would take days... Really I'm waiting for the 'ready for prime time' editor, and then I'll stockpile a few. MIC's make a difference, and of those I've only found 2 that I would use.

Listen, I'm sure there's a 'perfect' combination in between AMP - CAB - MIC, but I'm doing a helluva lot more playing and recording than tweaking, so I'm disinclined to spend the small amount of time I have thumbing through cabs.

But in general, I agree with the OP that most of them are, uh, not that great. Or, I just don't use them. YMMV. The conversion to a higher rate made a HUGE improvement, but I still don't get along with most of them. Probably normal.
 
You can use the AIR parameter to make the cabs sound less extreme. Also, a similar result by blending you cab with a more neutral sounding cab.
 
I'm really glad to hear these comments. The brit 4x12 and in some cases the 1st recto cab are the only ones I can cozy up to. I did use the cali 4x12 for a while, but only blended with the brit 4x12. As you might guess, I don't play much 'brutal'. Love some of the Clawfinger and Pigweed tones I've heard, but that stuff isn't my groove. As others stated, I don't think there's anything wrong with those cab sims, they just aren't what you're looking for.
 
I don't particularly care for the 4x12s much either..............but so what? I've long ago given up worrying about how the AxeFx sounds compare to real life sounds. When I'm using the AxeFx I use what sounds good.........if a 1x12 cab gets me the right sound then that's what I use. I think we all get hung up on the names and descriptions too much instead of just using what sounds best in our specific applications.

p
 
I really don't like any of the 4x12's except the German. Actually in general the 1x12 cabs are the ones that I like the best, even alot of the 2x12's are super scooped sounding.
 
Peter Hundley said:
When I'm using the AxeFx I use what sounds good.........if a 1x12 cab gets me the right sound then that's what I use. I think we all get hung up on the names and descriptions too much instead of just using what sounds best in our specific applications.

p
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Amen.
 
I find a lot of the 4x12s for me are fairly useless, especially on their own. The ones I tend to use are the V30 4x12, the Brit and Cali together, or a 4x12 of some sort combined with another cab (the 1x12 Studio has been seeing a lot of use lately).

That said, it was sorta the same for me using real cabs. While I could dial in a sound I liked with one cab in terms of the sound I heard in the room, when mic'ing up, I found I always needed two mics on the cab to get the sound I wanted.
 
I generally don't like the 4x12s either but I've only played around with them briefly with my metal band and I let the sound engineer tweak the EQ so they sound right FOH and in my monitor. Mostly I go Axe->amp FX loop->V30 2x12 and keep cab sims off. When I have played with the cabs at home (when I was trying out FR solutions or going direct to my Mac) I found only the V30 and Brit models worked for me. Mostly it was the 2x12s that sat closer to my ideal tone.
 
javajunkie said:
tonygtr said:
After having a couple of days filled with Axe tweaking, I noticed something. Why do most of the 4x12 cabs sounds so bad? :mrgreen:

Seriously, most of them are very bass-heavy and scooped sounding. My favourity IRL 4x12 cab is the Bogner 4x12 with V30s, which I owned for a couple of years. From my real life experience, I find the Bogner 4x12 cab in the Axe to have so much flubby bass it's silly, and lacking in the mids, 2 things I never ever experienced with the real deal. The Bogner 4x12 has a tight lowend, smooth highs and fat and articular mids. I just find it wierd that my favourite cab sounds more like the Recto 1 cab does IRL, and the other way around. The Recto 1 ( oversized Mesa cab) is flobby and scooped IRL, yet the Bogner 4x12 in the Axe has way less mids and more bass than the Recto 1 cab in the Axe.

Am I missing something here? :?
Click to expand...

Well those scooped cab you hate were added later because other people quite liked them. They don't work for me but the certainly work for the hi-gain players. There are different bogner cabs. The ubershall cab is different from the standard bogner cab. Also, the cabs are mic'd and even using a reference mic the are very position dependent on the position. The person that made the IR was probably going for that sound. The 4x12s that originally came w/ the Axe-fx (prior to the addition of several cabs) are not scooped or bass heavy.
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Well I would'nt say "hate", I just don't think they sound like the real cabs, way too metal, so to speak. Anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only one :) The original Bogner cab, is it possible to find it somewhere?
 
Totally. But it will take some researching. There are some 900+ cabs in a .zip floating around somewhere. I think Voes hosted those a while ago. But there are quite a number on axechange also. Be aware when using the preset manager's audition function cabs are actually installed in your user slot #1. Unless you have another user slot in your Axe-FX lcd screen...

I usually pair a German cab with something like a 4x12 25W or 2x12 brit, coupled with selecting the right mics to get them balanced tone. One at a time never does work for me. I think that's a step up, though, on the Vetta I had previously one amp wouldn't do it for me. While the amps on the Axe-FX are glorious on their own.

But I do think they sound very much like mic'ed 4x12 cabs to me. No mic actually means close-mic'ed with an Earthworks reference mic as far as the factory cabs are concerned.

Did you know the Brootalz crowd isn't very enamored of the factory cabs either... They seem to think they're too vintagey...
 
Dutch said:
Totally. But it will take some researching. There are some 900+ cabs in a .zip floating around somewhere. I think Voes hosted those a while ago. But there are quite a number on axechange also. Be aware when using the preset manager's audition function cabs are actually installed in your user slot #1. Unless you have another user slot in your Axe-FX lcd screen...

I usually pair a German cab with something like a 4x12 25W or 2x12 brit, coupled with selecting the right mics to get them balanced tone. One at a time never does work for me. But I do think they sound very much like mic'ed 4x12 cabs to me. No mic actually means close-mic'ed with an Earthworks reference mic as far as the factory cabs are concerned.

Did you know the Brootalz crowd isn't very enamored of the factory cabs either... They seem to think they're too vintagey...
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I have that big zip, and can only find a few Bogner cabs, most of which are Clawfingers. Thanks for the audition tip! :) I always save 10 cabs at the time and try them out, but your tip is good to know!

Too VINTAGEY? Really? Most of them sound so much metal they're not usefull for anything else, no mids and tons of bass :? I personally think the cabs should sound as realistic as possible, in other words more even in their response, with less chugga chugga low end and more mids. That way they are more usefull. If the metalguys wants superscooped etc, they can add that later via an EQ. IMHO, YMMW ;)
 
Remember, the cab sims are mic'ed. They won't sound like the cabs when you are standing in front of them, they'll sound like the signal from the mic.
 
quonsar said:
Remember, the cab sims are mic'ed. They won't sound like the cabs when you are standing in front of them, they'll sound like the signal from the mic.
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I'm aware of that, but if I throw a SM57 infront of a Bogner 4x12, it won't sound like that cab in the Axe with the SM57 mic sim, unless I do something very wrong IMHO ;) I always use the mic sim btw.
 
tonygtr said:
quonsar said:
Remember, the cab sims are mic'ed. They won't sound like the cabs when you are standing in front of them, they'll sound like the signal from the mic.
Click to expand...

I'm aware of that, but if I throw a SM57 infront of a Bogner 4x12, it won't sound like that cab in the Axe with the SM57 mic sim, unless I do something very wrong IMHO ;) I always use the mic sim btw.
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Actually, it just won't sound like how you would prefer to sound when you mic it, big difference. Again, there are many people who like those cabs and those people probably don't like the lack of low end on the other 4x12 (like the brit 4x12, 4x12 20W, 4x12 25W).
 
javajunkie said:
Actually, it just won't sound like how you would prefer to sound when you mic it, big difference. Again, there are many people who like those cabs and those people probably don't like the lack of low end on the other 4x12 (like the brit 4x12, 4x12 20W, 4x12 25W).
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You can count me in that group. I really dig the cabinets that this thread is bashing. I hardly use the brit 4x12, and 20 or 25w models... they just don't have any depth to them. They work for a couple of more vintage fuzz tones, but don't cut it for the metal tones.

I tend to set my amp controls to match the cab impulses I'm using as well, with the bass fairly low and the mids and treble up a bit. For my lead tones I boost the mids a bit more. I always mix the cabs, but often use something like the German and the V30 or Metal. Also, turning up the damping and B+ capacitance really helps get the sound I want out of those cabs. I don't find the cabs flubby or unbalanced for the sound I'm after, and my sound is really not all that scooped, but more full-range. I don't think I could get that much low-end out of the more vintage sounding cabs without making them sound muddy.
 
quonsar said:
Remember, the cab sims are mic'ed. They won't sound like the cabs when you are standing in front of them, they'll sound like the signal from the mic.
Click to expand...

They are close mic'ed.
 
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