A thought about the 4x12 cabs

[teejay]

I use Clawfingers 4x12 Royer121 Cab for pretty much everything. It's quite clean and flat and really highlights the Amps in my opinion. Never liked the factory 4x12s unfortunately...

 

[paulmapp8306]

Have to agree with the OP. I find the only 4x12s I can use are the Brit and the 25W. the others are WAY too bassy and fizzy.

Im not that keen on the 2x12s either !!, thought there are more I like.

I tend to use either a Brit 2x12 with a 25W 4x12, OR a Brit 4x12 and 25W 4x12 - then blend to taste. Its one reason why Im still running Amp/Cab for live.

Also I get much better results recorded that when using FRFR live. There I can generally just through a cab (any cab) in my Amp/Cab patches and it works - though I may roll off some bass and push some mids for cut. This is probably a fault with the monitoring though not reproducing the sound as well as the recorded set-up. Hopefully the Atomic will sort this out.

Oh - Anyone got a link for IRs? particularly Claw Fingers or any of Jays as I feel Ill need some "Far Micd" cabs when the Atomic arrives next month.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Jay Mitchell, I don't need that either. I'm very happy with the other cabs in the Axe, exept the more modern 4x12 and the farfield ones. My original point was why the modern cabs sounded so different than the other ones, that sound more accurate IMHO. And yes, I still like to dail the tones with the speakers hitting my ear or very close to it. I like the presence and articulation.

DNW, of course, I totally agree on that. I thought that was the reason mics like a SM57 where so colored, to compensate for how the tone changes up close?

Javajunkie, I still think the goal is to accurate as possible, especially with the reference mic.

 

[javajunkie]

Jay Mitchell, I don't need that either. I'm very happy with the other cabs in the Axe, exept the more modern 4x12 and the farfield ones. My original point was why the modern cabs sounded so different than the other ones, that sound more accurate IMHO. And yes, I still like to dail the tones with the speakers hitting my ear or very close to it. I like the presence and articulation.

DNW, of course, I totally agree on that. I thought that was the reason mics like a SM57 where so colored, to compensate for how the tone changes up close?

Javajunkie, I still think the goal is to accurate as possible, especially with the reference mic.

Accurate to what? The reference mic still has to be positioned somewhere. The positioning will have a profound effect on the freq response. The position of the mic on those particular cabs do suit your needs, fine. They don't for me either. However, the certainly do for others. There are many other 4x12 in the Axe-fx that don't exhibit that. In other words, there are different cabs for different tastes. I don't see how that is hard to understand. They were included because users asked for precisely that reason. Some users complained about the cabs not being beefy enough and were too middy. The started using custom cab 4x12 that were beefier and more scooped. Since so many people were using them, Cliff included them as stock cabs. All the original cabs are still there.

It is important to remember, just because you or I do not like something doesn't mean quite a number of people feel the opposite.

If you really want accuracy, make your own IR of cab mic'd the way you like it.

 

[javajunkie]

Have to agree with the OP. I find the only 4x12s I can use are the Brit and the 25W. the others are WAY too bassy and fizzy.

Im not that keen on the 2x12s either !!, thought there are more I like.

I tend to use either a Brit 2x12 with a 25W 4x12, OR a Brit 4x12 and 25W 4x12 - then blend to taste. Its one reason why Im still running Amp/Cab for live.

Also I get much better results recorded that when using FRFR live. There I can generally just through a cab (any cab) in my Amp/Cab patches and it works - though I may roll off some bass and push some mids for cut. This is probably a fault with the monitoring though not reproducing the sound as well as the recorded set-up. Hopefully the Atomic will sort this out.

Oh - Anyone got a link for IRs? particularly Claw Fingers or any of Jays as I feel Ill need some "Far Micd" cabs when the Atomic arrives next month.

Some of the Default ones are Clawfinger's and Jay's. Some of the 4x12 you do not like are Clawfingers. Clawfingers are nearfiled. I believe.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Javajunkie, I still think the goal is to accurate as possible, especially with the reference mic.

Then you should not be working with close-mic'ed IRs. They cannot possibly be an accurate representation of the speaker's sound. The fact that you may like them is not proof to the contrary.

Rather than pay lip service to "accuracy," you would be better served by simply acknowledging that you're pursuing your personal preferences. Accuracy is an objectively verifiable attribute. Preference is not.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Jay Mitchell, I don't need that either. I'm very happy with the other cabs in the Axe, exept the more modern 4x12 and the farfield ones. My original point was why the modern cabs sounded so different than the other ones, that sound more accurate IMHO. And yes, I still like to dail the tones with the speakers hitting my ear or very close to it. I like the presence and articulation.

DNW, of course, I totally agree on that. I thought that was the reason mics like a SM57 where so colored, to compensate for how the tone changes up close?

Javajunkie, I still think the goal is to accurate as possible, especially with the reference mic.

Accurate to what? The reference mic still has to be positioned somewhere. The positioning will have a profound effect on the freq response. The position of the mic on those particular cabs do suit your needs, fine. They don't for me either. However, the certainly do for others. There are many other 4x12 in the Axe-fx that don't exhibit that. In other words, there are different cabs for different tastes. I don't see how that is hard to understand. They were included because users asked for precisely that reason. Some users complained about the cabs not being beefy enough and were too middy. The started using custom cab 4x12 that were beefier and more scooped. Since so many people were using them, Cliff included them as stock cabs. All the original cabs are still there.

It is important to remember, just because you or I do not like something doesn't mean quite a number of people feel the opposite.

If you really want accuracy, make your own IR of cab mic'd the way you like it.

I don't own any cabs, or reference mics for that matter :mrgreen:

All I'm saying is that the smaller cabs, and the more vintagey 4x12 sound more realistical than the modern ones. The difference between the Bogner 4x12 with V30s and the Marshall 4x12 with V30s is no where that big in reality.

 

[jerotas]

I don't own any cabs, or reference mics for that matter :mrgreen:

All I'm saying is that the smaller cabs, and the more vintagey 4x12 sound more realistical than the modern ones. The difference between the Bogner 4x12 with V30s and the Marshall 4x12 with V30s is no where that big in reality.

You have nothing to lose by trying (free) my 59 Bogner IR's. They are in the "User Cabs & IR's" forum here. You may or may not find them "realistical" :mrgreen: They sound real to me on my presets. I use nothing else.

There are some on-axis farfield IR's in that collection, if anyone want to try them.

Making an impulse does not require having reference mics, as you can use any old medicore SM-57 or whatever mic you like to create the impulse. That will make a cab+mic impulse, instead of just cab impulse. In my case, I made 8-13 impulses for each mic I own, in different positions.

 

[mwc2112]

The majority of my patches are Plexi based (Plexi 1, Plexi 2, Brown) and I've found the 4x12 25W works best with those amps. It's my most-used cab sim.

 

[javajunkie]

Jay Mitchell, I don't need that either. I'm very happy with the other cabs in the Axe, exept the more modern 4x12 and the farfield ones. My original point was why the modern cabs sounded so different than the other ones, that sound more accurate IMHO. And yes, I still like to dail the tones with the speakers hitting my ear or very close to it. I like the presence and articulation.

DNW, of course, I totally agree on that. I thought that was the reason mics like a SM57 where so colored, to compensate for how the tone changes up close?

Javajunkie, I still think the goal is to accurate as possible, especially with the reference mic.

Accurate to what? The reference mic still has to be positioned somewhere. The positioning will have a profound effect on the freq response. The position of the mic on those particular cabs do suit your needs, fine. They don't for me either. However, the certainly do for others. There are many other 4x12 in the Axe-fx that don't exhibit that. In other words, there are different cabs for different tastes. I don't see how that is hard to understand. They were included because users asked for precisely that reason. Some users complained about the cabs not being beefy enough and were too middy. The started using custom cab 4x12 that were beefier and more scooped. Since so many people were using them, Cliff included them as stock cabs. All the original cabs are still there.

It is important to remember, just because you or I do not like something doesn't mean quite a number of people feel the opposite.

If you really want accuracy, make your own IR of cab mic'd the way you like it.

I don't own any cabs, or reference mics for that matter :mrgreen:

All I'm saying is that the smaller cabs, and the more vintagey 4x12 sound more realistical than the modern ones. The difference between the Bogner 4x12 with V30s and the Marshall 4x12 with V30s is no where that big in reality.

Once again, the difference IS that big, between where that Marshall 4x12 was mic'd from and from and from where the Bogner 4x12 was mic'd from. Not to mention how it was captured (if use a tube power amp to capture it - not sure). I will tel you right now with a reference mic or any mic, I can make any of my cabs sound radically different just by change where I mic it.

The bottom line is this. It doesn't work for you or me. It does for other people. There are other options in the Axe-fx. Use them.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Yeah, that's true. My point is just that some cab sims sound more like what people think as more accurate. My whole Marshall vs Bogner was that if the reference mic was in the the exact same place on both cabs, the difference wouldn't be so big. I don't know if the reference mic indeed is position differently, but my ears and experience with both cabs IRL tell me so.

The main problem for me is that I haven't found a single good cab for my more modern tones. The cabs with 30 and 25w speakers work creat for more vintage stuff, but for more modern tones I want that V30 cut and flavour, and there isn't any cab in there nor have I found one that sounds as good as a Bogner cab does IRL. The smaller ones and vintage 4x12 sound great compared to their real counterparts though.

 

[javajunkie]

Yeah, that's true. My point is just that some cab sims sound more like what people think as more accurate. My whole Marshall vs Bogner was that if the reference mic was in the the exact same place on both cabs, the difference wouldn't be so big. I don't know if the reference mic indeed is position differently, but my ears and experience with both cabs IRL tell me so.

The main problem for me is that I haven't found a single good cab for my more modern tones. The cabs with 30 and 25w speakers work creat for more vintage stuff, but for more modern tones I want that V30 cut and flavour, and there isn't any cab in there nor have I found one that sounds as good as a Bogner cab does IRL. The smaller ones and vintage 4x12 sound great compared to their real counterparts though.

the marshall and bogner were not mic'd ny the same person so they weren't mic'd in the same place. Yes bogner cabs are some of the best.


Try the red wirez. They are quite excellent with lots of positions.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Yeah, that's true. My point is just that some cab sims sound more like what people think as more accurate. My whole Marshall vs Bogner was that if the reference mic was in the the exact same place on both cabs, the difference wouldn't be so big. I don't know if the reference mic indeed is position differently, but my ears and experience with both cabs IRL tell me so.

The main problem for me is that I haven't found a single good cab for my more modern tones. The cabs with 30 and 25w speakers work creat for more vintage stuff, but for more modern tones I want that V30 cut and flavour, and there isn't any cab in there nor have I found one that sounds as good as a Bogner cab does IRL. The smaller ones and vintage 4x12 sound great compared to their real counterparts though.

the marshall and bogner were not mic'd ny the same person so they weren't mic'd in the same place. Yes bogner cabs are some of the best.


Try the red wirez. They are quite excellent with lots of positions.

I found the info about red wirez. They sound like exactly what I want, so I'll get them ASAP