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A real overdrive pedal

andyp13

Power User
just did a rehearsal tonight and backline was provided so I took my guitar a couple of leads and my Xotic AC pedal. I use the Xotic AC drive block in my Axe and thought it was ok until tonight when I used the real thing. It's far far removed from the Xotic drive block... Smoother, spongy and just so much better. I will try and get the Axe's AC drive block to sound the same though I really don't think I can. Mmm is this the start of me drifting away :)
 

Muad'zin

Fractal Fanatic
Not much point in trying to recreate a pedal sound when you basically have to recreate the whole signal chain to get that sound. Since you were playing on a provided backline you'd also have to recreate the amp. Also, how the hell does spongy sound? :confused:
 

Moke

Axe-Master
Vendor
Maybe most of what you were enjoying was the familiar feel of the back-line cab????
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
I switched back to using real drive pedals. The Fractal models are quite good, and certainly no one in the audience would tell any difference, but I can tell a difference with my Analogman NKT sunface vs the Fractal Fuzz Face block, as can I with my Chase Tone fuzzes, my Fuzzrite, etc. Just the way they clean up and interact with the guitar volume knob is rather unique, as are the tones you get from stacking one pedal into the next. Kind of fun to have some real pedals again. I actually built a little board ala Jimi Hendrix, with a RMC10 wah, Retrovibe Univibe clone, Roger Mayer Octavia, Sunface and a Gypsy fuzz, run those into the AX8 using a plexi model and it sounds amazing. Certainly could do it in the box, and its less to carry, but I kind of am enjoying the simplicity of my stand alone pedals, and just a few simple knobs to tweak.
 

andyp13

Power User
Not much point in trying to recreate a pedal sound when you basically have to recreate the whole signal chain to get that sound. Since you were playing on a provided backline you'd also have to recreate the amp. Also, how the hell does spongy sound? :confused:


The backline cab was crap - the pedal was organic. Muad'zin if you don't know what the hell spongy means when referring to overdrive, it means you have never used a good overdrive. :)
 

andyp13

Power User
Maybe this might be a good reason for the Axe III so I can patch in my Xotic pedal - at the moment I use my send to output 2 to feed my vocal harmoniser.
 

maxdown

Fractal Fanatic
Does putting the Xotic before the input of your current AxeFX 2 have a detrimental effect on the Out 2 signal to the vocal harmoniser?
 

Recon24

Member
I find both the model and the real pedal *too* ‘smooth and spongy’ for me, honestly. I spent some time using it a bunch but gradually fell away from it for that reason.

That said, ever since the overdrive overhaul several firmwares back I’ve found the drive block really nails the sounds I like. And at the end of the day anyway, I’m not really that concerned about perfect accuracy to the analog incarnation of a pedal so much as I am just having good sounding drive options in general.
 

andyp13

Power User
Does putting the Xotic before the input of your current AxeFX 2 have a detrimental effect on the Out 2 signal to the vocal harmoniser?

I think it would yes because the vocal harmoniser reacts more accurately from clean signals. In my axe settings I take output two directly from the input so it remains clean throughout - no matter what effects I use etc...
Do you think if I explain this issue to my wife I will get the go ahead for the Axe III. Then I can patch in my Xotic pedal in at the start (emediately after the out to the vocal harmoniser)
 

strat714

Experienced
I didn't have much luck with the drives in the AXE until I reduced the mix down to 50%. This made it sound much more realistic IMHO.
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
Could you use an aby box to send the signal to the harmonizer direct and then the other output you could run the pedal on and then into the axe.

Seems like a waste of an output if your just running the input into the output. Splitter box would accomplish the same thing
 

dr bonkers

Fractal Fanatic
Vendor
Sometimes drive pedals really need to see the pickups before any buffering or A/D conversion.

I wouldn't be surprised if in the III at some point we see a modelling of that impedance interaction between pickup and fuzz for example.

You can kind of get there using a dynamics modifier on certain parameters in the drive blocks.

Some of my presets in my cab packs illustrate how to do this to get a spongier feel.
 

RalphNYC

Inspired
There's also a "back and forth" effect. I've been using some great drive pedals that I love with a real amp for a while - low to mid gains, And I bought an XL+ this week, I'm thinking Wow these drives sound so great! ---- there's just something about going back and forth that somehow makes new (or new yet old) sound so good. Correct answer is probably that both "real" and "modeled" are extremely useful depending on what you're doing at the moment
 

Muad'zin

Fractal Fanatic
The backline cab was crap - the pedal was organic. Muad'zin if you don't know what the hell spongy means when referring to overdrive, it means you have never used a good overdrive. :)

I've built more overdrive pedals then you can think of. I've got whole boxes full of them stashed away. After a while they all sound the same, no matter how much I wanted them to sound different. Probably because 95% of them ARE all the same. Tubescreamers the whole lot of them.

Also, NEVER assume that what is common knowledge to you is common knowledge to everyone.
 

andyp13

Power User
Thanks for all the help/advice guys, I'm going to try my Xotic infront of my axe tonight and see how I get on.
 

lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
To really compare both options, you should connect the pedal through the effects loop of the Fractal, put FXL next to the Drive block, and match levels.

That can affect the tone and response of certain pedals though, often for the worse, as the effect loop runs at a line level. My analogman nkt germanium fuzz for example sounds and responds to the volume pot very differently in the loop, just as it does when it’s behind a buffered pedal etc

I run some modulation effects in the loop, like the SA Vertigo and it sounds great anywhere, but some pedals IMO, need to be first in the signal chain for “best” or authentic response, tone and interaction
 
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