5150 Presence Knob

Do You Want the 5150 Presence Control to be Authentic?

  • Yes

    Votes: 160 36.6%

  • No

    Votes: 277 63.4%
  • Total voters
    437
York Audio said:
Authentic. Anyone who has a real amp with a corresponding model uses their real world settings as a starting point. If those settings sound too far off, they think the model is garbage. Keeping all tapers authentic makes the analog to digital transition much smoother, more intuitive, and immediately familiar to those with experience with the real thing looking for a digital solution.

Plus, having to explain the non-authentic presence taper to people struggling with the model wouldn't be an issue anymore.

The amp is iconic even if the design isn't perfect. My vote goes to honoring the original design.
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This exactly. I wouldn’t call the taper broken or an error. It has been around for decades and they would have changed it if it “broken”. Keep the amps authentic to the originals for various reasons. It can’t be that hard in this day and age to program a button that switches the taper authentic to ideal. Or just make the ideal a separate “FAS” amp because that’s what it is…not original and modeled as the real amps are.

If we are playing a game of “idealizing” amps, there’s a lot of tweaks to various amps that could be done in the digital world.

But again, I’m a strong believer in keeping these things authentic.
 
MirrorProfiles said:
Another important “incorrect” character of the 5150 is the ridiculously cold bias. It’s awesome we have the ability to adjust it to “proper” settings but anyone with experience of the real amp will be familiar with how it sounds biased overly cold.

IMO they simply don’t sound correct with a warmer bias. We have the parameters to optimise and adjust things, but I think again the factory spec should be the benchmark
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Yeah, but which value is correct. On release the suggested bias was 20mA per tube. Later it was changed to 30mA per tube. Later still it was changed to 27.5mA.

Our models use the 30mA spec.
 
For those who've owned, or who are very experienced with a given modelled amp in real form, I can understand a strong vote for authentic tapers. For those of us not so familiar, it does not matter so much as I will explore the amp uslng whatever starting point tapers I'm given. The relevant thing for me wrt accuracy is how much the amp behaves like the real amp instance as the same knobs are twisted to equivilent actual values which may or may not match the real amp instance's knobs' visual positions. The exception for me as I mention above, is GEQ models since they are often articulated visually such that even users novice to the amp may easily have a picture in their head of a desired settlng (much less likely with rotational knobs). Less of a concern for GEQs though since they are all generic in Axfx except for the "Mark" 5band.

I'd wager that the more visually obvious settings are on a real life amp, the more users would vote authentic. IE, if a real life amp has chicken head knobs, my sense is that more modelling users would want authentic tapers for that amp, compared to an amp with round knobs (maybe a reason why this amp pops up now for discussion since afaik it usually has chicken head knobs). Of course the audible rate of change is material to preference also, but I'm thinking the visual aspect also plays a role in preference.

Interesting stuff
 
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I would be beyond confused if the presence in some amp worked differently from all other models. So "no".

The IT guy in me screams of joy for having all the same controls in exact same places acting in exactly same way for all amps. It it a beautiful thing.
Over my time with Fractal I started to hate the "make it look like real amp" UIs and controls and never us them.
 
I voted for Authentic because, as others have stated, that is the way the reference amp is and keeps more in line with Fractals modeling ethos. And while there are exceptions to that, such as the Mark series graphic EQ sliders, I favor to start from the more true experience and then have the advanced parameters to take the amp in whatever direction it may need from there.

Also, I feel more confident in making this choice because we have the FAS 6160. This model could be further tweaked by Cliff to better reflect the more current community driven idea of what a 5150 style amp should be and how it should operate.

Either way, speaking for myself, I'm fine either way.
 
I think Fractal should create a global "easy mode" that makes EVERYTHING in the Axe Fx ideal, all the Marshall become hot rodded and sound like Slash, all Fenders are are squiky clean, all VOXs sound like Queen, all Mesas sound like Metallica or Petrucci, etc., when all the controls set on 5.
 
FractalAudio said:
Yeah, but which value is correct. On release the suggested bias was 20mA per tube. Later it was changed to 30mA per tube. Later still it was changed to 27.5mA.

Our models use the 30mA spec.
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Towards 20mA for sure for me. I remember some comparison tests and 18mA even sounds killer. Some came out the factory even lower (like 14mA or so), not sure I’ve ever heard of a 5150 being close to 30mA without being serviced and having the resistor either swapped for another value or modded for a bias adjustment pot. 25mA is probably as high as I’d go but it’s all personal preference and dependent on the valves/voltages etc. My preference would be 18-20mA (knowing what bias values correspond to that would be awesome to know if possible!)
 
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James Freeman said:
100%
The vote count also reflects how many people have actually been in the vicinity of real tube amps, not many... kids these days. :p
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I take this as tongue in cheek, but I gigged tube amps for over 20 years when I got an Axe Std in 2008.
I want the amps to sound authentic. But my opinion is that I agree with Cliff's approach of "fixing" things that he considers design flaws that hinder usability.
I'd guess that the majority of members here have a lot of miles with tube amps on them.
 
For the record I will ALWAYS prefer literally everything to be ideal vs authentic.

Why recreate the problems?I am baffled by this. The amps exist. If you want them and their problems go get them.
I want to move onward and upward with a new, better platform.

Also - I want more FAS Amps if this is how we will get this. I think a some of you sleep on those to your detriment. Let go of brand muscle memory in the digital world. Think of the sound you want not the logo! Be well.

I'm using one of the FAS amps as at least one of the core three in -all- my presets. I'm old school in that way. Clean/Dirty/Lead is still the foundation of all things for me. 3 is enough for the gigs I do!
 
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