5150 build.

To me the stock JB never sounded right so I've done some testing and I believe I've gotten very close to this broken JB sound.

Unfortunately there would be no way to accurately know where the pup was broken but I seem to recall reading that a prototype guitar at Ernie Ball was made where Eddie could turn the "feature" on and off to experient with a toggle switch.

Which led me to believe it could probably be replicated with soldering a 160k resistor (1%, 250Mw) on the hot lead, total being near enough 180k.

I also replaced the JB polished mag for a roughcast (still Alnico V) magnet straight to a 500k EVH Bourns low friction pot with a Cornell Dubilier Mica Cap - (CD15FD151JO3F - 150PF, 500V, 5%). I guess when the 5150 was built in '83 they may have still been making the JBs with roughcast mags hence the choice.

Boy oh boy is it close. I'd love for you to test this out as well. To my ears it sounds absolutely fantastic and spot on. It's an easily reversed mod anyway.

Ps. I went with the current "look" of the 5150 by choosing the Reverse Zebra, which is I believe is still the Wolfgang pickup? But it's purely just for aesthetics for my own personal enjoyment.

Ps. Ps. Ignore the flux residue in the picture, I forgot to clean it off before taking the picture.

This does sound very similar to what Jalen Guitar did w/ the FW ( Fair Warning ) pickup that Jim Gaustad evidently consulted on ... ?
 
To me the stock JB never sounded right so I've done some testing and I believe I've gotten very close to this broken JB sound.

Unfortunately there would be no way to accurately know where the pup was broken but I seem to recall reading that a prototype guitar at Ernie Ball was made where Eddie could turn the "feature" on and off to experient with a toggle switch.

Which led me to believe it could probably be replicated with soldering a 160k resistor (1%, 250Mw) on the hot lead, total being near enough 180k.

I also replaced the JB polished mag for a roughcast (still Alnico V) magnet straight to a 500k EVH Bourns low friction pot with a Cornell Dubilier Mica Cap - (CD15FD151JO3F - 150PF, 500V, 5%). I guess when the 5150 was built in '83 they may have still been making the JBs with roughcast mags hence the choice.

Boy oh boy is it close. I'd love for you to test this out as well. To my ears it sounds absolutely fantastic and spot on. It's an easily reversed mod anyway.

Ps. I went with the current "look" of the 5150 by choosing the Reverse Zebra, which is I believe is still the Wolfgang pickup? But it's purely just for aesthetics for my own personal enjoyment.

Ps. Ps. Ignore the flux residue in the picture, I forgot to clean it off before taking the picture.
The problem is if you only have Ed playing live in recordings from the 80's you don't really have a reference at all because between Ed's hand and the fact that Ed recorded mostly with other guitars there is no control . Also your guitar has and alder body with a thick skinned finish again totally different a way that you would hear easily in person. The best reference is a PV Wolfgang bridge pickup because it was built to replicate the original with the original as a reference in fact Jim still has it. Unless you have played the guitar yourself through a known amp you can't possibly have anything to go on except the PV and EVH (now also the Kramer) pickups.
 
The problem is if you only have Ed playing live in recordings from the 80's you don't really have a reference at all because between Ed's hand and the fact that Ed recorded mostly with other guitars there is no control . Also your guitar has and alder body with a thick skinned finish again totally different a way that you would hear easily in person. The best reference is a PV Wolfgang bridge pickup because it was built to replicate the original with the original as a reference in fact Jim still has it. Unless you have played the guitar yourself through a known amp you can't possibly have anything to go on except the PV and EVH (now also the Kramer) pickups.

I'm not sure how to read your post if I'm honest, been going over it a few times. Reading back my message I don't think I claimed I discovered the holy grain tone that's 100% accurate.

Like I said, give it a go, nothing to lose. I'm assuming yours isn't wall art and you're actually have got a functioning pickup in there?

Unless you have played the guitar yourself through a known amp you can't possibly have anything to go on except the PV and EVH (now also the Kramer) pickups.

I really don't understand what you mean with that as you say on the one hand I have absolutely nothing to go on but then immediately saying we do have some things to go on. It's a little bit of a silly statement all things considered anyway by listening for years to the live recordings and the album songs that we know more or less the Kramer was used on, it gets pretty close. And besides, people have seen all sorts of Kramers played live, including 5150. Of course I wasn't in the 5150 studios hearing the raw unprocessed sound.

We might as well say to 3 generations of brown sound tone seekers over the last 40 years that all their efforts were useless as there's nothing to go on on any of his guitars. We know plenty of songs which guitars were used. A whole plethora of people have approximated a lot of different tones Eddie used successfully.

Also your guitar has and alder body with a thick skinned finish again totally different a way that you would hear easily in person

I thought people have moved away from the tone wood myth seeing as we've actually got university studies from luthiers to go by that show no tonal differences between any woods once the human factor is taken out. Other factors, sure, but not tone. I mean, by all means die on that tonewood hill, you may have PRS join you though knocking on a piece of lumber to make his point. :grin:
 
I'm not sure how to read your post if I'm honest, been going over it a few times. Reading back my message I don't think I claimed I discovered the holy grain tone that's 100% accurate.

Like I said, give it a go, nothing to lose. I'm assuming yours isn't wall art and you're actually have got a functioning pickup in there?



I really don't understand what you mean with that as you say on the one hand I have absolutely nothing to go on but then immediately saying we do have some things to go on. It's a little bit of a silly statement all things considered anyway by listening for years to the live recordings and the album songs that we know more or less the Kramer was used on, it gets pretty close. And besides, people have seen all sorts of Kramers played live, including 5150. Of course I wasn't in the 5150 studios hearing the raw unprocessed sound.

We might as well say to 3 generations of brown sound tone seekers over the last 40 years that all their efforts were useless as there's nothing to go on on any of his guitars. We know plenty of songs which guitars were used. A whole plethora of people have approximated a lot of different tones Eddie used successfully.



I thought people have moved away from the tone wood myth seeing as we've actually got university studies from luthiers to go by that show no tonal differences between any woods once the human factor is taken out. Other factors, sure, but not tone. I mean, by all means die on that tonewood hill, you may have PRS join you though knocking on a piece of lumber to make his point. :grin:
No you haven't understood anything that I said.
I don't know if you read the thread . I met Ed in the 90's and played 5150 with the original pickup dry in to a Marshall that I was very familiar with and was able to hear directly the difference between Ed playing it and Me. Obviously Ed had a HUGE personal imprint on the tone that totally overwhelmed the pickup choice beyond did Ed like it or not. I think without this personal experience or the actual pickup all you can do is get a pickup that WAS designed to replicate it with it and use that as a reference but it will be you playing it and it won't sound like Ed. Yes you can replicate a particular era rig and try to play in a way that sounds right. The people that get close do so mostly by their playing ability.
As regards the wood; it's not the tone wood debate at all it's about the fact that your thickly painted body of different density and weight simply doesn't react the same as one with almost no paint on it that was also extremely light. The species of wood doesn't matter it is it's resonant properties. If you don't believe this makes a difference explain why putting a PAF on a Squire strat doesn't sound EXACTLY the same as a 59 Les Paul. Also frequency related dead spots are down to mismatched wood selection. Are you going to die on this hill?:tearsofjoy:
And before you ask the thing that matters about paint is how thick and how hard not nitro or poly.
 
No you haven't understood anything that I said.
I don't know if you read the thread . I met Ed in the 90's and played 5150 with the original pickup dry in to a Marshall that I was very familiar with and was able to hear directly the difference between Ed playing it and Me. Obviously Ed had a HUGE personal imprint on the tone that totally overwhelmed the pickup choice beyond did Ed like it or not. I think without this personal experience or the actual pickup all you can do is get a pickup that WAS designed to replicate it with it and use that as a reference but it will be you playing it and it won't sound like Ed. Yes you can replicate a particular era rig and try to play in a way that sounds right. The people that get close do so mostly by their playing ability.
As regards the wood; it's not the tone wood debate at all it's about the fact that your thickly painted body of different density and weight simply doesn't react the same as one with almost no paint on it that was also extremely light. The species of wood doesn't matter it is it's resonant properties. If you don't believe this makes a difference explain why putting a PAF on a Squire strat doesn't sound EXACTLY the same as a 59 Les Paul. Also frequency related dead spots are down to mismatched wood selection. Are you going to die on this hill?:tearsofjoy:
And before you ask the thing that matters about paint is how thick and how hard not nitro or poly.
Can we hear more about your impression of Ed’s playing?

As terrifying as it would be, fascinated to hear your impression of his playing in that context
 
Can we hear more about your impression of Ed’s playing?

As terrifying as it would be, fascinated to hear your impression of his playing in that context
This was not the worst playing experience I have had ,that was playing in front of Allan Holdsworth .
Ed was great as always . He was trying some vintage Marshalls out that I had set up for him and he brought 5150 and a Green Musicman. I was surprised to see 5150 as it was retired at this point. He had handed 5150 to me and could see that I was looking carefully at it when he said "play it man" . So over the next half hour Ed and Me plugged in and out of a bunch of Plexi 100s all dry. Ed was Ed and every thing he played had direction melody and groove , what more can you say. I have played with a few guys one to one that you will probably own albums from that where shockingly awful out of context but I'm not naming them. Back to the Marshalls; Ed picked the best ones out immediately on only playing a chord or two. Great ear and a lovely guy.
 
First post. I just had to clean my shorts out after going through this thread. AMAZING work you have done!

Andy, it is probably somewhere in the thread, but can you recommend easy to obtain paint brands/colors in the US that would approximate your colors?

I am more excited than ever to find this thread.
 
First post. I just had to clean my shorts out after going through this thread. AMAZING work you have done!

Andy, it is probably somewhere in the thread, but can you recommend easy to obtain paint brands/colors in the US that would approximate your colors?

I am more excited than ever to find this thread.
Universal white and black with GMWA7753 for Chevy Truck red or Corvette red Mille Miglia WA4147.These two are almost identical and it is impossible to know exactly which is the original . I think it boils down to did Ed point at a Chevy truck or a Corvette and say "that colour" to George. It was R&M brand Acrylic Lacquer but as long as your paint dries hard and is all compatible it doesn't matter. No modern paint is anything like one from 1980s anyway. A lot of guys use Duplicolor with varying degrees of success and say Wimbledon white (wrong) and De1607 engine enamel which is too orange and is technically incompatible with the lacquer. This combo "looks" like the colours in a photo from the 80s but if you see the guitar in daylight it is redder. This guitar looks all the way from orange and cream to red and white depending on the light and it has hardly been seen since 2004 .
IMG_2978.JPG
Probably the best mid 80s photo to work from.
 
Thanks. Regarding the Wimbledon and the Chevy orange-red cans, I wondered why people would mix lacquer and enamel. Even if the brand is the same, the paint is different.
 
Also what's up with the 5150's? Some have a black outline and some do not.
The real one has 1" prism pattern with printed outlines. The confusion happens because it is printed out of register and it is also part worn off. This is added too by the opacity of the printing . At certain angles in a particular light you hardly see the line. This has caused people to speculate that the outline is sharpie, it isn't.
IMG_2446.JPG
5150,2.jpg
This is the kind of appearance that makes people think it is sharpie.
The out of register is easy to see because the lines are individually straight and where they are thick on one side they are thin on the opposite. Also I am old enough to remember these decals for sale on carousels in petrol stations in the late 70s early 80s
Next to these;
shopping.jpeg
 
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gettyimages-179662509-2048x2048.jpg
Very early shot. The other facts are only one set of numbers where used because the placement is not changed and if it was sharpie (it isn't) you would need to apply it before you stuck them down. The earlier shotes are the ones where it appears faint or not there.
If you are looking for an accurate set only the EVH brand set are correct.
 
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