Bug? 2 Amps = Terrible Sounding Output

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EthanC

EthanC

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The fellow I was speaking with through email support hasn't returned my emails since last week so I wanted to go ahead and pose the inquiry here and see if i could drum up some support.

What's going on is that, after wanting an axe fx for like 4 years now, I finally have one. I even sprang extra for the Mark 2 model NIB. Go big or go home, right?

Anyways, the thing just rips total ass. Exactly what I hoped it'd be and more. Couldn't be more satisfied with the purchase. However I'm having some weird issue that I can't resolve on my own.

Last week, for some reason, when i started up the unit i noticed that the patch i was using sounded like shit. It was all tinny and almost sounded like the wah was stuck on, however there was no wah in the chain. I moved around and noticed that the correlation is it sounds that way now on any and all patches that use 2 amps instead of just 1.

I don't know what caused it as it basically started overnight. Then a few days later, while waiting on a support response, i powered it up and voila, it sounded great again. However once i moved down one patch then back up to the original, it went right back to sounding dildos.

I've searched everywhere and haven't heard about this happening before, so I'm turning here. I really really don't want to return the unit but if it's busted, what choice do I have? I have noticed though that even if i take a regular patch and add a second amp to it, the shit tone starts immediately after the amp is added, even before it's connected to the cab or anything. It even still happens if i totally bypass the second amp. The formula stays the same: If there is a second amp of any kind anywhere in the chain = crapsound.

What should I do?
 
This seems like a preset issue, not a bug.

My guess is that you're inserting the 2nd Amp block in series (in-line), instead of placing it in a separate (vertical parallel) row.
Amp blocks in series will almost always sound terrible.

If you do lace the App blocks parallel make sure that the Bypass Modes of both Amp blocks are set to Mute instead of Thru.
 
yek said:
This seems like a preset issue, not a bug.

My guess is that you're inserting the 2nd Amp block in series (in-line), instead of placing it in a separate (vertical parallel) row.
Amp blocks in series will almost always sound terrible.

If you do lace the App blocks parallel make sure that the Bypass Modes of both Amp blocks are set to Mute instead of Thru.
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  1. Mentioned a few times this is something that just randomly started happening to pre-existing patches and previously working patches. It's a bug of some type.
  2. I'd like to think that anyone willing and able to drop $3000 on guitar hardware has the common sense not to plug one guitar amp into the output of another.

Happened again just this morning when I started it up. This patch sounded great. Scrolled up one patch then back down back to it and voila, sounds like balls again, as do all patches premade and otherwise using any two amps of any configuration.

Anyone else?

P.S. I've been noticing since day one that I am constantly, constantly failing to connect to axe edit about 75% of the time and also losing connection while in the program frequently using the latest program, latest firmware and drivers and running through the USB only.

788786564356.jpg
 
Are you switching between the two amps, or using both amps at the same time? Any chance that the two amps, in conjunction with summing at the output, with both amps going, there is some phase cancellation going on? If you're listening in stereo, hard pan one amp left, and one amp right, and give each amp its own speaker cabinet (identical if you prefer), panned L or R accordingly. Does this change anything?

Also, could you give a full description of all connections and gear you're using (usb, digi i/o, computer, AxEdit, MFC101, etc. etc.), and how you are monitoring? First step is to disconnect ALL peripherals from the AxeFx except guitar -->cable--> AxeFx, and monitor with a decent pair of cans, and do all editing via front panel, not AxEdit.

...just some quick ideas...perhaps post up a preset .syx file for us to look at and test?
 
jimfist said:
Are you switching between the two amps, or using both amps at the same time? Any chance that the two amps, in conjunction with summing at the output, with both amps going, there is some phase cancellation going on? If you're listening in stereo, hard pan one amp left, and one amp right, and give each amp its own speaker cabinet (identical if you prefer), panned L or R accordingly. Does this change anything?

Also, could you give a full description of all connections and gear you're using (usb, digi i/o, computer, AxEdit, MFC101, etc. etc.), and how you are monitoring? First step is to disconnect ALL peripherals from the AxeFx except guitar -->cable--> AxeFx, and monitor with a decent pair of cans, and do all editing via front panel, not AxEdit.

...just some quick ideas...perhaps post up a preset .syx file for us to look at and test?
Click to expand...

ESP MH 417 -> Axe FX 2 -> Monitors/Headphones (As simple as you're going to get) The DAW and PC info is irrelevant because as i show in the video, you don't even have to be connected to the PC to get the exact same result and with a built-in patch.

The video I just uploaded shows me simply dialing back to the factory 383 preset "deadhead" and reproducing the exact same error on it. You can clearly see that the bug happens the instant a second amp is applied, even when it isn't connected to anything and stays even when you bypass the block until it's actually removed entirely.

I did the video this way just to show that i've already eliminated anything on the PC or even axe edit itself because a previous poster wanted to know what happened when i tried it just on the axe fx itself and this is the result.

If the unit is fragged i'd prefer if a Fractal employee could verify what i'm showing and let me know asap so i don't run out of time and am unable to return it.

 
Few things:
1. There is no factory preset called "deadhead". No idea where that came from but it didn't leave the factory like that.
2. What version firmware?
3. Using terms like "dildos" to describe tone is curious.
 
FractalAudio said:
Few things:
1. There is no factory preset called "deadhead". No idea where that came from but it didn't leave the factory like that.
Click to expand...

I was just going to try and replicate this and found that also. Preset 383 is the Amp Matching Template. Where is this preset from?
 
What is your CPU value before adding the 2nd amp and after the 2nd amp? I find that having up to 92% is ok for live BUT not ok when using the USB in a DAW. When USB is active I have to reconfigure to 88% or below.
 
I didn't think the number of amps affected the CPU since they have a dedicated processor. Doesn't the AFXII use a high resolution mode for amp modelling when a single amp is used, and a lower resolution when a second amp is added ... maybe that's the tone change? I thought it wouldn't be that noticeable, but maybe in this case it is.
 
EthanC said:
It was all tinny and almost sounded like the wah was stuck on, however there was no wah in the chain. I moved around and noticed that the correlation is it sounds that way now on any and all patches that use 2 amps instead of just 1.
Click to expand...

From the description, this almost sounds like it could be a phase issue.
 
xrist04 said:
From the description, this almost sounds like it could be a phase issue.
Click to expand...

how could it phase with a 2nd amp that isn't connected to anything? i suspect it is the "low res" mode of the amp block (putting 2 amp blocks vs 1) but i haven't ever experienced a drastic tone change like that shown in the video.

i'll check this out too when i get home.

is it possible to upload the preset? you can use fractal bot and a usb cable to get it off. that preset definitely isn't stock.
 
FractalAudio said:
Few things:
1. There is no factory preset called "deadhead". No idea where that came from but it didn't leave the factory like that.
2. What version firmware?
3. Using terms like "dildos" to describe tone is curious.
Click to expand...

1. Dude, it's built into my axe fx. Have a look at what 382 is called. How is this a surprise to you?
2. 11.03
3. It's a Metalocalypse reference. Metalocalypse fluency should be a prerequisite of working at Fractal I would think.

Again, to everyone asking about deadhead and wanting me to send it to them, it's on freaking axechange. It's been on my unit since the moment i upgraded the factory firmware to 11.03. And as I've mentioned repeatedly it has nothing to do with the preset because it happens on any patch anywhere i add a second amp to.

What i find curious is someone from Fractal "not knowing where that preset came from" considering i found it with a simple search of your website on that "axechange" page. I didn't download it so are you saying this one and some or all of the ones in the image i showed you aren't on everyone elses when it comes out of the factory? If so, would the logical conclusion be that someone played around on mine before I got it? As far as I could tell it was new in box.

However, again, it happens on any patch i just chose that one to demonstrate at random.

I'll check the cpu usage like that other person mentioned and post the results, thank you.

presets.jpg
 
Cliff's point was that Deadhead is not a *factory preset* but a user one--Axe Change is a convenience for users to trade presets and the quality of the presets can vary quite a bit. When you said it came with that preset it indicates that someone loaded it in after the unit was shipped. Same with the preset right above it .


Danny W.
 
just tried what the OP did in his video. couldn't replicate the results. I loaded up the grid with a second unconnected amp and other blocks until CPU overload, which would disallow the last block causing overload. one time I added a block that was very close to CPU overload, and the tone changed to garbled crap, but not at all like the sound in the OP's video. Adding and removing a second amp block, by itself, had no discernable impact on the primary connected amp block's tone on my setup.

try reinstalling firmware?
 
hey EthanC,

we aren't questioning anything like your capabilities etc, but rather making sure that you indeed got a "new" Axe-FX unit. did you buy it direct from fractal? or off ebay or something?

as stated above, yes, that preset may be on the Axe-Change, but anyone from anywhere can upload presets there, so it's not surprising that FractalAudio doesn't know about that preset among the tons of presets uploaded there.

regardless if it's a factory preset or not, it was not at spot 383 from the factory. someone put that one there, which also means that other things could have been changed or messed with. we are all trying to help you out here. i think we understand that that amp problem happens on any preset, but again, the bigger point is that you may not have received a truly "factory new" unit - that's really what we want to determine first.

there are ways to upload a "reset" file and also to reset system parameters in the Utility menu. have you done anything like that by chance? would you be ok with trying to reset your unit completely to find the problem?
 
EthanC said:
1. Dude, it's built into my axe fx. Have a look at what 382 is called. How is this a surprise to you?
Click to expand...
Because it is not supposed to be built in there.

3. It's a Metalocalypse reference. Metalocalypse fluency should be a prerequisite of working at Fractal I would think.
Click to expand...
No it is not...but lol.

Again, to everyone asking about deadhead and wanting me to send it to them, it's on freaking axechange. It's been on my unit since the moment i upgraded the factory firmware to 11.03. And as I've mentioned repeatedly it has nothing to do with the preset because it happens on any patch anywhere i add a second amp to.
Click to expand...
Chill out dude. Everyone is just trying to help out. Despite what you think, "deadhead" is not a default present. It makes me think that someone uploaded the patch from axechange.

What i find curious is someone from Fractal "not knowing where that preset came from" considering i found it with a simple search of your website on that "axechange" page. I didn't download it so are you saying this one and some or all of the ones in the image i showed you aren't on everyone elses when it comes out of the factory? If so, would the logical conclusion be that someone played around on mine before I got it? As far as I could tell it was new in box.
Click to expand...
Fractal does not monitor each preset that comes into the Axechange. It is a community based website where everyone can contribute their personal patches to. So maybe you didn't get the Axe-fx directly from Fractal.
 
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