1500 bucks, you say, Line6?

Rotti said:
Vetta wasn't bad, but I doubt I'll see a flood of Axe's on the TGP classifieds from people looking for used Vettas any time soon. It's not an apples/apples comparrison.
Likewise, L6 has almost certainly moved more units, but how many were at wholesale to distributors? All of them. I doubt their margins are really that impressive.
I guess maybe I'm just not sure what your point is? L6 is a bigger company, but they've failed enormously in delivering a product up to the standards of even the original AxeFx. So, as cool as this helix thing looks, I'm in no hurry to sing it's praises.
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Wasn't their goal. Fractal has failed to deliver sales numbers rivaling m9 or dl4. Not their goal.


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Rotti said:
I think that's exactly what silk meant, that you can use so many because the algos are not very deep, and thus not likely to be of significant quality.

Also keep in mind that one of the helix's dsp chips is dedicated to THE USER INTERFACE.
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Not accurate. Mcu for UI dsps are for processing.


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There have been some strange statements made in this thread.

"Line 6 has only ever been low-price modeling". Well, no. For a while there they were the only "modeling" company that mattered. Or really even existed with a certain level of viability or even a certain product that you could actually buy.

"Line 6 has never played in the high end market." The first Vetta was nearly $2k and that was -- what? -- almost 15 years ago? They have chosen -- like other companies -- to use their tech to create lower cost versions to reach a larger market. Very few companies *don't* do this. Fractal is doing it right now with the AX8 -- creating a lowered price version, by leaning on and leveraging their existing intellectual property. Are they doing it so they'll make less revenue? Nope.

For me, I really enjoy my Axe. I don't think the Helix will be good enough to displace my Axe. It would have to be A LOT better for me to move, and I don't know what that means really. I'm happy with my sounds. Would I like a sleeker interface? Sure, but it's not like I have a huge problem dialing up sounds. I'm not going to sacrifice sounds and flexibility for pretty lights.

I'm satisfied enough with my AxeII that if AxeIII was announced tomorrow, that would be cool news, but I would have to think hard about why I would need it.

I'm betting this new Helix thingy will have some interesting UI changes and developments. Perhaps those can filter through the industry if they are worthy. I'm betting it will sound good, probably on par with an AxeFX Ultra. If so, that's cool, but I'm not stepping back to that level of modeling.

Right now, no one knows just yet. The added ability to use third party IR's may be enough to really make a huge step forward for Line 6. Their included cab modeling (Pod HD500 and such) is just total junk -- phasey, fizzy, boxy, crapola. Using some real IR's will level the playing field a bit.
 
Hey Cliff.....release some new firmware or a Klon model or something! Stop all this Line6 talk for a while at least.......lol
 
I think it's worth mentioning, I do not think ANYONE will sell a Axe FX for a Helix, ever.

I also don't think anyone in this forum will buy a Helix, because MOST people in THIS forum already own Axe Fx and that's why we are all here.

But, people in this forum make up a very, very small minority of guitarists...

And that's what's interesting to me, to see Line 6 bring Axe Fx quality to the masses. And they will do that with a lower price.

MORE people would buy a Axe Fx 2 XL plus, IF the price was $1500 instead of $2500.

Line 6 realizes this. They know they can make a bigger profit overall by selling at prices that the average guy can afford.

I'd say most guitarists probably make LESS than $30,000 a year.

A $1,000 difference in price makes a huge difference.
 
You know what really aggravates me about this Klon Centaur situation??? From what I've read on here the Axe is capable of doing the Klon tone but Cliff just refuses to ever model it.
I think Cliff should give the users what the users want.
A lot of people want the Klon.

But from the way I understand things Cliff is just being stubborn about it because people on here say no one will be happy with the model if he releases one.

Well in that case, release several different versions of the Klon.

A lot of people argue about the accuracy of the Axe's Dumble models, release the Klon and let them argue about that, at least a lot of people will be happy to have that Klon.

The Klon Centaur gold edition is THE holy grail of all pedals.
 
soon said:
You know what really aggravates me about this Klon Centaur situation??? From what I've read on here the Axe is capable of doing the Klon tone but Cliff just refuses to ever model it.
I think Cliff should give the users what the users want. But from the way I understand things Cliff is just being stubborn about it because people on here say no one will be happy with the model if he releases one.
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You know what really aggravates me about internet forums? Uniformed, speculative douchebag comments like those above.

Welcome to Ignoreville, chuckles, population you.
 
I'm sorry, but if anyone bought a vetta new for $2K, they're either tone deaf, foolish, or really really reeeaaally wanted to believe in more than they were hearing. That's a $500 or less product, then or now. Kudos to line 6 for making money on it. It doesn't make it any more or less of a quality product.
 
Rotti said:
I'm sorry, but if anyone bought a vetta new for $2K, they're either tone deaf, foolish, or really really reeeaaally wanted to believe in more than they were hearing. That's a $500 or less product, then or now. Kudos to line 6 for making money on it. It doesn't make it any more or less of a quality product.
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Whether it had a million dollars of value in your eyes, or a nickel, does not dismiss the reality of where it was priced and where it was sold. It was clearly, at the time, a "high-end modeling product."
 
5150 said:
Whether it had a million dollars of value in your eyes, or a nickel, does not dismiss the reality of where it was priced and where it was sold. It was clearly, at the time, a "high-end modeling product."
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Which is my point... "at the time" is meaningless, especially when "at the time" that same amount could have bought far superior equipment from a tonal perspective. The same is true of solid state amps when they were released and likewise dubbed a "game changer" of sorts... didn't make anyone's SS Crate sound any better, did it?
 
More info from L6. Here's the full list of model/effects in Helix 1.0. Someone asked the developer about future models. The response was: "Any future models we may or may not include will be largely prioritized from IdeaScale requests." Sounds to me like there's already hand-wringing about future updates over in the L6 camp.

Input Blocks:
None, Multi (Guitar, Aux, Variax), Guitar, Aux, Variax, Variax Magnetics, Mic, Return 1, Return 2, Return 3, Return 4, Return 1/2, Return 3/4, S/PDIF, USB 3/4, USB 5/6, USB 7/8

Output Blocks:
Multi (1/4", XLR, Digital, USB 1/2), Path 2A, Path 2B, Path 2A+B, 1/4", XLR, Send 1/2, Send 3/4, Digital (S/PDIF, AES/EBU, or L6 LINK), USB 1/2, USB 3/4, USB 5/6

Distortion Models:
Minotaur, Compulsive Drive, Valve Driver, Top Secret OD, Scream 808, Hedgehog D9, Vermin Dist, Arbitrator Fuzz, Triangle Fuzz, Industrial Fuzz, Tycoctavia Fuzz, Megaphone

Dynamics Models:
Deluxe Comp, Red Squeeze, LA Studio Comp, Noise Gate, Hard Gate

EQ Models:
Simple EQ, Low Cut/High Cut, Parametric, 10-Band Graphic

Modulation Models:
Optical Trem, 60s Bias Trem, Script Mod Phase, Ubiquitous Vibe, Gray Flanger, Harmonic Flanger, Courtesan Flange, Chorus, 70s Chorus, Trinity Chorus, Bubble Vibrato, Vibe Rotary, 122 Rotary, 145 Rotary, AM Ring Mod, Pitch Ring Mod

Delay Models:
Simple Delay, Mod Chorus Echo, Multitap 4, Multitap 6, Ping Pong, Sweep Echo, Ducked Delay, Transistor Tape, Harmony Delay, Bucket Brigade, Adriatic Delay, Elephant Man

Reverb Models:
Plate, Room, Chamber, Hall, Echo, Tile, Cave, Ducking, Octo, 63 Spring, Spring, Particle Verb

Pitch/Synth Models:
Pitch Wham, Twin Harmony, 3 Osc Synth

Filter Models:
Mutant Filter
Mystery Filter [Hi, Stilwel—we miss you, brother!]

Wah Models:
UK Wah 846, Teardrop 310, Fassel, Weeper, Chrome, Chrome Custom, Throaty, Vetta Wah, Colorful, Conductor

Volume/Pan Models:
Volume Pedal, Gain, Pan

Send/Return:
Send 1, Send 2, Send 3, Send 4, Send 1/2, Send 3/4, Return 1, Return 2, Return 3, Return 4, Return 1/2, Return 3/4, FX Loop 1, FX Loop 2, FX Loop 3, FX Loop 4, FX Loop 1/2, FX Loop 3/4

Looper:
Mono, Stereo

Split:
Y, A/B, Crossover

Merge:
Mixer

EDIT: See post #240 for amp models
 
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Rotti said:
That list looks so incredibly similar to my hd500. Any word on amp models?
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I could've sworn I saw a list of amp names earlier in this thread......or it may have been the TGP one. I just have a hard time taking them seriously with some of the ridiculous names they came up with to avoid copyright issues
 
silk said:
My two cents about FX8 vs HELIX... on FX8 someone reach DSP limit with only 8 fx and on HELIX they're talkin' about 30 fx together: for me this says enough about HELIX FX's quality.
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The devil is in the detail.
Line 6 (and other manufacturers for that matter) have been known to make claims like this before. They may say it can run up to 32 effects simultaneously, but what effects are we talking about exactly? For example, on the HD500 you could hit the DSP threshold very, very quickly, especially if you used the better quality reverbs. The only way to get the specified number of simultaneous effects was to run the most stingy chain known to man.

I imagine people aren't going to be able to run 32 effects simultaneously in any way they possibly wish. I could be wrong.

Also, it's all about the code, which is one of the things that one of the Line 6 guys on another forum has stated a few times. Yes, we know that Fractal are putting out some amazing gear, but is their code the most efficient?

Line 6 pretty much pioneered amp modelling. Their fault was that they rested on their laurels and didn't really push the boundaries like Fractal and Kemper have done. Now, there are reports that this product has been under development for some years now, so in fact it looks like they were dabbling in more advanced stuff for quite some time. They also have extensive experience with DSP processing, so they have everything going for them to produce highly efficient code.
 
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Rotti said:
Which is my point... "at the time" is meaningless, especially when "at the time" that same amount could have bought far superior equipment from a tonal perspective. The same is true of solid state amps when they were released and likewise dubbed a "game changer" of sorts... didn't make anyone's SS Crate sound any better, did it?
Click to expand...
In a rare move, I'll quote myself for the sake of expanding on this.

We've all bought crap gear at one time or another (or overpaid if you prefer), but there comes a time when you start trusting what you hear. None of us have really heard a helix yet, which is why I keep saying wait and see.
At the end of the day, anything is worth what someone will pay for it, which is why the used market for guitar gear outside of the AxeFx is awesome/sucks depending on whether you're the buyer or seller... or maybe because guitar is dead as "soon" suggests [emoji12]
That said, just going on company track record (which, aside from a few pretty pictures, is all we have), I see this thing panning out EXACTLY like the 11Rack.
 
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