12AY7 Preamp tube for tweed Deluxe and Bassman models

It'll get you in the ballpark, but the 12AY7s I have on hand (mostly NOS JAN units) give a little bit different tone to any of my 12AX7 types - a little less bright and a bit more "bluesy/fat" sounding, in addition to the lower gain. Likely the bias point is a little different also, which would affect the overall THD when clean and the overdrive character when driven hard. Might try different 12AX7-ish types along with the gain reduction via the input pad to get closer, and playing with Preamp Bias, Plate Freq, and hardness, too.

12AT7s draw more idle current (will bias very differently than 12AX7 types in the same circuit) and usually sound a bit cleaner than 12AX7, but with a bit thinner tone. Their frequency response is very good in the high end due to being designed to work for grounded-grid radio-frequency preamplification. https://www.effectrode.com/knowledge-base/the-12at7-tube/

There's eight to choose from: 12AX7A, 12AX7A JJ, 12AX7A Rca, 12AX7A Syl, 12AX7B, 7025, ECC83, and ECC803S. Some info on what each is modeling is here, but the info is a bit older (with parenthetical notes referring to AxeFX II) and only includes 5 12AX7 types and the EF86 (which it mentions is normalized to be roughly the same gain as a 12AX7):
https://wiki.fractalaudio.com/wiki/index.php?title=Amp_block#PREAMP_TUBE_TYPE

Given that there are 8 12AX7s to choose from, it would be nice to have a 12AY7 and 12AT7 to play with as well, as the bias/hardness/plate frequency/etc. settings to give a more accurate representation of the sound, are as of now, guesses....
 
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I have four nice GE JAN 12AY7s hanging out here. Here's two of them:
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It would be intresting to hear from you guys who actually has the amp what you think of the axe version of it. After Cygnus the tweed deluxe is among my top 5 in the box…do you have to crank the real one to make it bloom? Does it feel different to play? Do I miss something with the tone with the axe vs the real one. Feels like I’m close to finding my tone with this one and l’m curious if it can get any better…. Or maybe I just chill and wait for the release of FW17😊
 
It would be intresting to hear from you guys who actually has the amp what you think of the axe version of it. After Cygnus the tweed deluxe is among my top 5 in the box…do you have to crank the real one to make it bloom? Does it feel different to play? Do I miss something with the tone with the axe vs the real one. Feels like I’m close to finding my tone with this one and l’m curious if it can get any better…. Or maybe I just chill and wait for the release of FW17😊

You miss something the second you believe that you miss something. And unless someone can somehow prove to you that you did or didn't you may get FOMO (fear of missing out).

Don't sweat it, just enjoy the tones you get and remember to back up!
 
It would be intresting to hear from you guys who actually has the amp what you think of the axe version of it. After Cygnus the tweed deluxe is among my top 5 in the box…do you have to crank the real one to make it bloom? Does it feel different to play? Do I miss something with the tone with the axe vs the real one. Feels like I’m close to finding my tone with this one and l’m curious if it can get any better…. Or maybe I just chill and wait for the release of FW17😊
It sounds dead on to me The IRs make the most difference to me now.
 
I think input trim is your friend. It's huge parameter for me in getting the gain staging right which is the biggest thing. I have a 58 Tweed Deluxe (actually the first one Cliff used when he put a Tweed Deluxe in the AxeFX) I'm guessing he has his own now. I've never had it confirmed or denied whether the modeling he did off mine continues to be used. For me, the keys are cranking the tone (on my real one, I'll have it from 3/4 of the way up to dimed). I think the tone actually acts like something of a gain control in this circuit. Also when you get it to where it starts clipping, you're going to want that treble in the sound for the juiciness of the harmonics and overall brightness, cause it's a dark circuit until the tone is turned up. Mine starts to clip probably 1/3 of way up the dial depending on single coil/humbucker gain. Beyond that it's a balance of compression and grind. Also, if I want to hit it with gain pedal to push it and retain a little clean headroom, I'll keep the volume down a bit more. Also the bright channel volume affects the sound even it's not jumped, so you can dial that to taste.

I think the model is damn close to the real thing. One thing you can't tell from the model vs real thing is how much the real thing just destroys the 5E3 clones that many people who don't have the real thing seem to think is the real thing. I have played my 58 Tweed Deluxe next to several clones, most recently a Speed Shop p2p version. The Speed Shop sounded really good until I plugged in the real thing and it ate the Speed Shop in 2 gulps. Louder (by a lot), ballsier, more of everything you want out of it. I was shocked. I had the same experience when I bought it, trying out 2 clones next to it and same thing, complete no contest.

I can't tell you why that's so. I read all the time about people talking about 5E3 circuits and how simple they are, and how easy to clone. That may be, but none of them I've heard hold a candle to the original I have. A friend I used to play with was my motivator for getting mine because he used to sound so good playing his. I A/B'd his and mine and the difference between the speakers was by far the biggest difference. They both sounded super similar and equally asskicking into the same speaker, and both way better than the clones.
 
I’ve got an original 1955 Tweed Deluxe 5D3 that runs a 12AY7 in tube 1. The original Fender Bassman and the Tweed High Power Twin also used a 12AY7 in tube 1. While these tubes used to be somewhat hard to get, they have been available from JJ for a few years now (there’s also the EH version).

I think it’s great that the EF86 is modeled in addition to the 12AX7, but it would feel more authentic for me to be able to select the 12AY7 for the aforementioned amp models.

[Edit] Saw the Admin’s post just above. So, is the Tweed High Power Twin (5f8) also modeled with the 12AY7?
{More Edit] The more I think about it, the setting for tube 1 should be explicit. Otherwise why make the EF86 available at all? I’ve only ever seen it used for tube 1. On real Bad Cat amps you can select a 12AX7 OR an EF86 as tube 1.
 
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