Help a Noob out please. Not getting any good sounds. :(

MR MARCUS

Member
I know that I'm doing something wrong. I am playing a Les Paul w/EMGs, AxeFx Standard, ART SLA1 into a Randall KHX cab. I have the poweramp sim on and the cab sim off. I can't get a usable sound yet. I'm trying to get a good metal sound and I am failing miserably. Can someone share some settings with me please? I dont have an interface so downloading patches is not possible right now.
 
Can you tell us a little bit more about what you've got going on...?

1) What are your global setings? Have you selected (and are you using) the front input, or the rear one? What settings do you have selected for the input in the menu?

2) What are you setting your input knobs to (the real world physical knobs on the front of the Axe FX)?

3) What are you setting your output knobs to (the real world physical knobs on the front of the Axe FX)?

4) Give us a rundown of what your typical patch that you're working with looks like.
a) What's in it? (Blocks for the... drive? amp ---> cabinet ---> reverb ---> EQ ??? What else? Or, what's not there?)
b) What are the settings you're using in the blocks such as drive, amp, EQ?

This info could help us better understand what you may either be doing wrong, or what you're you're not doing yet.
 
Keep it simple. Just amp like Recto New with everything at noon. That should give you a proper starting point. Don't tweak advanced parameters. They won't save you if you are doing something wrong. It should sound okay right out of the box.

Check I/O input source. It should be analog front assuming you are going in through the front. Then check input level... it's okay that it hits red when you pick harder. That's the way it should be. Press GLOBAL and check that the global EQ is flat. When I had an ART SLA-2 I rolled down the 63hz knob and it gave me a lot more volume. Cabinet bypassed.
 
Thanks guys. Browlett; I don't know enough about this thing to answer some of your questions. I'll get back with you. I just expected to be blown away by this thing. I know it's gonna happen if I just be patient. I'll have more time to play with it tomorrow night and Saturday. I just hooked it up today.
 
Try stock patch 80. turn the cab sim off. Change the enhancer to a PEQ at the end and change the high and low adjustments to blocking type. I usually block at 100 and 6700 or so. This will cut the digital harshness in the high end. Turn the master volume on the amp block to about 3.5. close your eyes and adjust the presence knob till it sounds good.

....and get a better power amp. I don't like the ART compared to the Carvin and QSC amps I've tried.
 
Try stock patch 80. turn the cab sim off. Change the enhancer to a PEQ at the end and change the high and low adjustments to blocking type. I usually block at 100 and 6700 or so. This will cut the digital harshness in the high end. Turn the master volume on the amp block to about 3.5. close your eyes and adjust the presence knob till it sounds good.

....and get a better power amp. I don't like the ART compared to the Carvin and QSC amps I've tried.

The digital harshness is what is getting to me. I'm glad you said that. I'm already looking for a good used tube poweramp. I have an SLA2 on the way but I might put it on sell pretty quick.
 
The digital harshness is what is getting to me. I'm glad you said that. I'm already looking for a good used tube poweramp. I have an SLA2 on the way but I might put it on sell pretty quick.

Oh yeah. Change the amp to the Bogner Uber. Sounds killer. I didn't like the SLA2. That's the one I had. No balls when the volume went up. I have the Carvin DCM 1540L now. I like it alot more. I've had the Fryette 2/50/2 and 2/90/2 with the axe as well, and I still like the Carvin DCM the best. Another SS route to go would be an old Mosfet. I have a Carvin FET1000 that I got for $220 on ebay. It sounds better with less tweaking. I don't think it is a clean as then newer Carvin and it does attenuate that digital harshness a tad bit on its own. The Mosfets were designed to be more tube-like. The PEQ pretty much gets the newer Carvin to sound the same though.

My friend has a used VHT 2/50/2 I think he's gonna sell - shoot me a PM if you are interested and I'll give you his contact info.
 
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Thanks guys. Browlett; I don't know enough about this thing to answer some of your questions. I'll get back with you. I just expected to be blown away by this thing. I know it's gonna happen if I just be patient. I'll have more time to play with it tomorrow night and Saturday. I just hooked it up today.

It'll definitely take more work than just hooking it up and going at it. Make sure you've got all the I/O stuff set up properly first or you'll just drive yourself nuts trying to fix it with tweaking. If you didn't buy it new, check other things like the global EQ too.

Once you've got it set up properly, the best thing to do (aside from browsing the presets if you want to get an idea of just what the thing can do FX-wise) is to just blank out a patch and start with the basics. In your case, running the ART through a guitar cab, I'd say basically an amp block (w/poweramp sim) and that's it.

A "good metal sound" is fairly broad though, so it's hard to say which amp to start with. I used to be a Mark series nut, so that's where I started. More recently though I've been using the Uber and thoroughly enjoying it. I also like the Shiva, although it's not really for tight metal stuff unless you're doing other things to tighten it up. That said, I've done metal with an unreasonably cranked JCM800, the Mark IV stuff, Uber, Cornford, Diezel, Shiva, Shiva + Fuzz Face, etc. etc. Plenty of options, just depends on what kind of sound and feel you want.

I've been running mine just through monitors ever since I got it (well, I plugged it into a tube poweramp and cab when I first got it, but was selling that stuff off anyway) and suffer no "digital harshness" or anything of the sort. :)
 
IMO, this talk of "digital harshness" is BS, or at least misleading in that it implies that any harshness is caused by the fact that the unit is digital. Any distortion amp, be it digital, tube, or solid state analog, is going to sound "harsh" if you do not tailor the high end correctly or adjust the parameters appropriately.

I've heard many an analog amp that sounded far "harsher" than the Axe. I've also heard some horrid Axe presets (especially from Axe Exchange) that are sandpaper to the ears. This is due to programming deficiencies, not the digital nature of the product. I find the high end in the Axe to be especially realistic with a total lack of aliasing or other unpleasant audible artifacts. I've compared it side by side to my Triaxis preamp / Hughes and Kettner tube power amp (which ain't harsh) and the Axe is every bit as smooth.

It is too easy to attribute initial dissatisfaction to "digital", at least in the case of the Axe. Keep experimenting. The Axe can most certainly sound harsh, and it is digital, but there is no correlation between the two in my opinion.
 
okay replace "harsh" with "sterile" or "unnatural", whatever you want to call it, it just isn't there in most tube amps unless you have the presence/treble/mids maxed out. Out of the box alot of high gain players have this complaint with the Axe. My buddy Mortega76 still has this complaint when and he's been using the Axe for years. I did as well. Once you learn to use the EQs and what settings work, it's easy to get it sounding natural and what a guy coming from tubes is used to hearing - using a SS amp. The quality/headroom of the amp has alot to do with it to from what I've tried.
 
oh noes! my Axe must be faulty! they forgot to put the digital harshness into mine!

IMO, this talk of "digital harshness" is BS, or at least misleading in that it implies that any harshness is caused by the fact that the unit is digital. Any distortion amp, be it digital, tube, or solid state analog, is going to sound "harsh" if you do not tailor the high end correctly or adjust the parameters appropriately.

quite right!
 
okay replace "harsh" with "sterile" or "unnatural",
Nope. Do away with "digital." Any amplification device can sound "harsh," depending on how it is set and how the player uses it. The phenomenon is not due to digitization.

it just isn't there in most tube amps
Neither of us have played "most tube amps," so we shouldn't be making such unsuppported generalizations. I can tell you with 100% confidence - because it is based on direct experience - that some of the most sought-after vintage tube amps have the capability to produce incredibly harsh sounds. The more things you're allowed to control, the worse you can screw up your sound. That's a principle I have found to apply to all guitar gear, not just to digital modelers.

Out of the box alot of high gain players have this complaint with the Axe.
I believe it would be more accurate to say that a lot of inexperienced players have this complaint. It just happens that we hear it about the Axe-Fx, since this is an Axe-Fx forum.

Once you learn to use the EQs and what settings work, it's easy to get it sounding natural
IOW, once you learn how to operate it, you can make it sound however you like. I agree with that.
 
Usable Sound

Hey there Mr Marcus

You should ride the horse on a smooth pasture before you take her on the rocky trails! Any way you can listen in some full range monitors instead of that Randall?

Also, it might sound crazy, but I will sometimes use the speaker sims ON even when using real speakers, then use EQs and what-not to accentuate some of what's missing for you.

As for the people who say they can hear "digitalness," that's just a stupid word hey throw out to map unfamiliar territory. Do they complain about CDs? About the sound in a great modern movie theater? No. Do they complain listening to their big artists latest release that was mastered in pro tools? No.

It won't take you too long to get there, and when you do you will be VERY happy.
 
okay replace "harsh" with "sterile" or "unnatural", whatever you want to call it, it just isn't there in most tube amps unless you have the presence/treble/mids maxed out. Out of the box alot of high gain players have this complaint with the Axe. My buddy Mortega76 still has this complaint when and he's been using the Axe for years. I did as well. Once you learn to use the EQs and what settings work, it's easy to get it sounding natural and what a guy coming from tubes is used to hearing - using a SS amp. The quality/headroom of the amp has alot to do with it to from what I've tried.

I ran it into the return of my 5150 last night and it made a huge difference. Now I'm torn between tube and solidstate poweramps. You and I both have owned the mighty Herbert so I trust your opinion. I have been eyeballing the Carvin SS poweramps and there is a T100 on ebay. I almost pulled the trigger on the Atomic MB50 but the fact that it's mono and not rackmount made me change my mind. PM me a price on your friends VHT if you can. If I can sell my 5150 I might can pull enough cash together to get that.

Oh and I don't think that Jay Mitchell knows that you have owned almost every tube amp made. :)
 
I ran it into the return of my 5150 last night and it made a huge difference. Now I'm torn between tube and solidstate poweramps. You and I both have owned the mighty Herbert so I trust your opinion. I have been eyeballing the Carvin SS poweramps and there is a T100 on ebay. I almost pulled the trigger on the Atomic MB50 but the fact that it's mono and not rackmount made me change my mind. PM me a price on your friends VHT if you can. If I can sell my 5150 I might can pull enough cash together to get that.

I think he's looking for $800 or so shipped. I picked up a Carvin FET1000 on ebay for only $225 and I'd take that amp over a tube amp for the axe any day. Trust me. As I said above, I've tried both the Fryette amps with the Axe and they won't give you anything more or better than you can get going SS. When I said out of the box, it was an implied "inexperience" with the Axe. It does take a little work to get. Most high gain players I know were initially let down by the harshness that they hear scrolling through the stock patches. Some never figure it out and give up. I did the first time I owned it. I played my friends again and figured out a few EQ tricks. I bought another one and I'm just as happy with the Axe as the two tube amps sitting next to it.

Oh and I don't think that Jay Mitchell knows that you have owned almost every tube amp made. :)

Yeah. Seems like an "unsupported" assumption that he stated as if it were a fact. Rightly or wrongly......as if he would know what tube amps I have or have not played. lol. I guess I should have said "amps that I've played". I will admit that I have never sought after a vintage amp in my life.
 
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Yeah. Seems like an "unsupported" assumption
Nope. I say with 100% confidence that you have not played most - i.e., a majority - of all tube amplifiers. If you really intend to assert otherwise, the burden of proof for such a ridiculous assertion would fall to you. I submit that to accomplish such a feat - even if you were to devote, say, only five minutes to each amplifier - would require more time than you will be alive.
 
Nope. I say with 100% confidence that you have not played most - i.e., a majority - of all tube amplifiers. If you really intend to assert otherwise, the burden of proof for such a ridiculous assertion would fall to you. I submit that to accomplish such a feat - even if you were to devote, say, only five minutes to each amplifier - would require more time than you will be alive.

Jay, I am not trying to start an argument with you, but this is a rare case of a man that has played most high gain tube amps. haha Give this a view to get a glimpse of his amp history. I think it is a good testament to the awesomeness of the AxeFx. I mean after ALL those amps, and yet he settles in with the AxeFx.

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/mhenson42/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ20
 
Jay, I am not trying to start an argument with you, but this is a rare case of a man that has played most high gain tube amps. haha Give this a view to get a glimpse of his amp history. I think it is a good testament to the awesomeness of the AxeFx. I mean after ALL those amps, and yet he settles in with the AxeFx.

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y294/mhenson42/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ20

Didn't realize those photobucket accounts were open to view. Had to check to be sure there wasn't anything incriminating on there. lol There's many more pics I could upload.

This forum needs a :facepalm: emoticon.
 
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