Cleaner headroom for Matchbox D-30

Dangeroso said:
Does this mean that the master volume works in reverse on the Fractal? Typically on an amp, the MV when dimed it is taken out of the circuit completely.
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Fractal implements the Master Volume as it is in the real, analog, amp. But some amps don't have master volumes so in those models the parameter will default to 10, AKA, out of the circuit. On those I leave it on 10 to emulate the real amp.

On amps that have a master volume I adjust it just as I would on the real thing, I start with it set low and slowly increase it to get to the sound I want, typically when there's a bit of sag and a little bit of crunch, then back it down. Then I fiddle with the tone stack and gain. If I need more volume from the block I adjust the Level control which only changes the output level.

See Master Volume in the Wiki's Amp Block page for a collection of Cliff's comments about how it works. This is a summary…
[119] I just start low and bring it up until I get the desired compression. Then I chug the E string and if it's too buzzy or flubby I drop it down a bit. For tight, high-gain stuff you want to keep it low. For liquid, spongy tones you want to set it higher.

MV is the most important Amp block control for tone. You have to find the sweet spot. Start at 3 and increase until desired compression is reached. Stock presets are set to sweet spots, subjectively (based on the guitar used and personal opinion). Do not use MV for volume and don't turn it up too much (unless it's a non-MV amp). If an amp has Input Drive and Overdrive controls, use Input Drive for tone shaping and Overdrive as a flat gain control.
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helloiamdustinwhite said:
This is how the MV works on the Matchless. It's basically turning the amp down when you turn it down and wide open is like the master volume isn't there. The 60s Vox AC30s the amp is based on didn't have a MV. So the MV is sort of reducing what's hitting the power section (grossly over simplifying whats going on). It was designed to 'tame' the amp. This is why most people tell you to run the MV all the way cranked. Some Matchless even had a pull/push pot on the MV that would bypass it 100%.
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my HC-30 has the master push/pull. it does not behave like the model with the model's master cranked for sure.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
Fractal implements the Master Volume as it is in the real, analog, amp. But some amps don't have master volumes so in those models the parameter will default to 10, AKA, out of the circuit. On those I leave it on 10 to emulate the real amp.

On amps that have a master volume I adjust it just as I would on the real thing, I start with it set low and slowly increase it to get to the sound I want, typically when there's a bit of sag and a little bit of crunch, then back it down. Then I fiddle with the tone stack and gain. If I need more volume from the block I adjust the Level control which only changes the output level.

See Master Volume in the Wiki's Amp Block page for a collection of Cliff's comments about how it works. This is a summary…
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That sounds like the controls for a single volume amp. A Master volume doesn’t work that way in reality. What I don’t know, because I don’t have one, is whether the DC-30 is a MV amp or not. If not, then it sounds like the master volume is actually a single volume in the model.
 
I’ve read that wiki description of the MV several times and it seems to me that MV on a Fractal does not mean MV in the traditional sense. It seems to be a second volume acting as a secondary gain stage to the amp since a higher setting provides more power tube drive.

From the wiki:
“Settings for Master don’t necessarily correspond to knob positions on the amp being modeled”
 
Input Trim is your friend
It should solve it for you
I can see you set it for 0.4, so maybe try having it in Scene Control 1, for example, to be able to switch between 0.4 and 0.2 or so
If your pickups are too hot.. lower the guitar volume?
 
It's not a Twin Reverb, and doesn't act like it. It's never a clean-clean amp. Not in the models
or in real life, with the actual amp. You have to get the clean-up with your volume on the guitar,
and mostly, and this is they biggest key, your picking dynamics. The beauty of the amp is
that it's inherent sensitivity gives you grit and clean all at the same time, and you get those based
on how hard you mash the strings.... or how lightly you feather them. It's an amp that will make
anyone a better player, and more dynamic and musical guitarist. If you work with the amp/model
as it is.
 
Dangeroso said:
That sounds like the controls for a single volume amp. A Master volume doesn’t work that way in reality. What I don’t know, because I don’t have one, is whether the DC-30 is a MV amp or not. If not, then it sounds like the master volume is actually a single volume in the model.
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The Master Volume is modeled the same as the real amps for those that have a MV.

Greg was referring to the Ideal controls where even non-MV amps still have access to MV. In that case, it defaults to 10 because that's the equivalent.

If you stick to Authentic mode and ignore the Ideal tab then you'll only see MV on amps that actually have it.
 
I would love . LOVE .. to see an accurate c-30 model with the 12ax7 treble/bass channel hitting one side of the PI and the EF86 and its tone cap selector hitting the inverting side of the PI into the quad of hot EL84s

This is the jumped matchless so many people have dreamed of and requested for years.

DSP be dammed. It would be epic!
 
WKSmith said:
I would love . LOVE .. to see an accurate c-30 model with the 12ax7 treble/bass channel hitting one side of the PI and the EF86 and its tone cap selector hitting the inverting side of the PI into the quad of hot EL84s
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Howzat work? The phase inverter has a single input, and it's in series with the signal. To get to the inverting side, you'd have to bypass it.
 
Dangeroso said:
Well there you go. From the link:
“Our model is based on channel 1”

The DC30 model is based on the Channel 1 only, which is a single volume amp. Interestingly, Matchless also sells a Channel 1 only version of the DC30 as a separate amp, the Matchless Lightning.
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That is an older thread from before the EF86 channel was added.

The DC30 has a post phase inverter master volume that affects both channels.
 
Rex said:
Howzat work? The phase inverter has a single input, and it's in series with the signal. To get to the inverting side, you'd have to bypass it.
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The dc30 schematic makes it a little clearer. Channel 1 hits the top of the PI and Channel 2 hits the bottom.

IMG_3004.jpeg

IMG_3005.jpeg
 
I was able to get the D-30 a little cleaner. Just slightly. It actually sounds fantastic now. The clean channel breaks up a little when digging in. I left the MV on 10 because it just sounds better there. I experimented with the cabs and I have 2 2X12s. (026 and 185) and it helped clean it up a bit. Its got this nice growl.
But playing around with my presets, I think I actually found what I've been looking for all along. The Class A 30W Brilliant with the IRs 2X12 Cass-A 57B and 2x12Blue Mix. This sounds the closest to my Dr Z Stangray. The clean channel is the cleanest out of the 3 vox and vox inspired models I"m using. The Class A 30 has thatr big Piano like bottom end, chimey on the top end
This is the description of the Stangray and it about describes what I'm getting.

The Dr. Z Stangray aims to capture the clean, chimey sound of early Beatles recordings and is essentially a non-top boost Vox AC30, offering a cleaner tone with less drive than later AC30s that included the top boost circuit. It features an EF86 preamp tube and EL84 power tubes, producing a rich clean sound that can get its overdrive from the phase inverter and power tubes, r
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Wouldn't that PI setup make the two channels out of phase at the output? If both channels were jumpered, you'd get comb filtering between them.
 
mr_fender said:
Wouldn't that PI setup make the two channels out of phase at the output? If both channels were jumpered, you'd get comb filtering between them.
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Nah. The inversion is necessary to compensate for the inversion that happens on the inverted leg of the transformer.
 
WKSmith said:
I would love . LOVE .. to see an accurate c-30 model with the 12ax7 treble/bass channel hitting one side of the PI and the EF86 and its tone cap selector hitting the inverting side of the PI into the quad of hot EL84s

This is the jumped matchless so many people have dreamed of and requested for years.

DSP be dammed. It would be epic!
Click to expand...
God I love jumping the two sides like this on mine. I would love to be able to fully replicate this -- as running an instance of each side isn't the same thang.
 
Dangeroso said:
I’ve read that wiki description of the MV several times and it seems to me that MV on a Fractal does not mean MV in the traditional sense. It seems to be a second volume acting as a secondary gain stage to the amp since a higher setting provides more power tube drive.

From the wiki:
“Settings for Master don’t necessarily correspond to knob positions on the amp being modeled”
Click to expand...
I'm simplifying a bit but master volumes on tube amps are a gain stage. They control the gain of the power amp tubes specifically. There are higher and lower headroom tubes and circuits can be designed for maximum headroom, but volume in a tube amp is never 100% transparent.

The other thing too is that it's very easy to run the modeled volume knob higher in a modeler than you would ever run it on a real amp because the real amp would be so painfully loud that's unusable.

When I first got into modelers, I tried to dial some basic fender clean tones. Most of the classic Fender amps are non-master volume but I just followed the conventional wisdom that Fenders are always clean and that "cranked = more good". In the Helix and Fractal, they would always be way more distorted than I wanted with the volume just on 5. I thought there was something wrong with the modeling but then I thought back to the times I've used real Fender amps and on most of them, I couldn't turn the volume past 3 before it got painfully loud and unusable. Between 2-3 was usually the sweet spot for me in terms of a clean tone.I discovered that the Fractal Amp models worked the same, which is to say they were accurate.
 
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