Uncle Larry's take on digital amp modelers

Episode 2 Whatever GIF
 
Dave Merrill said:
His contribution wouldn't be technical, it'd be as an experienced player, reacting to how it feels to play through the gear.
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In that case, no need to look any further.
This forum is full of experienced players doing the exact same thing.

I don't know why I think it's so odd when somebody believes a conversation between Cliff and anyone (other than a complete software engineering nerd), will yield an ounce of improvement. (I know it's not you saying it @Dave Merrill )

Here's the convo:

Every player who thinks they know what the magic is: "yeah man, it needs more krang when I'm using my tele with the lollar pick ups and more kachunk when I have my bare knuckle humbuckers barking"

Cliff: "Oh super, that was the assistance I needed"
 
The link seems to go to his channel overview only - tried to sift through but could not find the comments being discussed here. Anyway, imo, there is value in a company like Fractal listening to serious guitar players' thoughts on modelling since such customers are a primary customer segment. Would Fractal get any new engineering tips out of it? - probably not, but getting insight into the perspective of one's customers seems well worth the time from a business perspective. Hell, there's probably even value in getting those thoughts from non serious guitar players since I'm guessing even those generate a fair chunk of revenue.
 
BBN said:
In that case, no need to look any further.
This forum is full of experienced players doing the exact same thing.

I don't know why I think it's so odd when somebody believes a conversation between Cliff and anyone (other than a complete software engineering nerd), will yield an ounce of improvement. (I know it's not you saying it @Dave Merrill )

Here's the convo:

Every player who thinks they know what the magic is: "yeah man, it needs more krang when I'm using my tele with the lollar pick ups and more kachunk when I have my bare knuckle humbuckers barking"

Cliff: "Oh super, that was the assistance I needed"
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Right, all possible useful feedback has already happened, from the people here, most of whom aren't full time professionals, on stage or in the studio. Right.
 
There are other more established and accomplished voices which differ. I was really surprised to see Joe Satriani's take on modelers (he's a fan now).
 
GlennO said:
Hot takes on whether a modeler can be distinguished from a tube amp is so 2015.
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As are criticisms of people for asking whether modeler tones are 100% at the level of amp tones. At least he did his own comparisons, instead of just regurgitating some Internet splort as Fact :)
 
Artists who are used to endorsement deals usually like their palms occupied with silver or gold before issuing a positive review of a product, even if they don’t really use it.

Whenever an artist bashes modeling in general, with some research, I usually find they are endorsing some tube amp or fly rig or analog preamp pedal of some sort.

Color me surprised. Pro players are still human and in some cases have damaged hearing. Appealing to such authority is a logical fallacy though the instrument industry is built on it.
 
I absolutely love Larry's channel, but that dude's bread and butter is and has been a lifetime of playing vintage instruments into vintage amps in world class studios where you turn on one actual '65 Deluxe that was once owned by some Nashville OG that has a huge pedigree behind him and it's got character unique to that amp because the life it's had, shitty component testing back in the day, stuff swapped out over the years of having it repaired while being broke as a joke, etc. And then all those unique characteristics coming through hundreds of thousands of dollars of pre-amps, mics and engineers who know how to bring out those characteristics that are unique to the gear.

These guys chase gear for their unique characteristics and lore associated with them because that's the ballpark they can afford to play in and the world that exists around them. Larry's also churned out more gear than most guitarists, he's not looking for gear that's consistent wherever he goes to play a gig or session, he's looking for the gear that speaks to him the most within that ballpark. Just like EJ goes through Fuzz Faces and Marshall heads like no one's business, trying to find the perfect ones for what he does. And when they eventually shit out on him, he has to go through the work all over again. And hell, look at EJ with the Virginia Strat; it was his main guitar for about a decade and the one he says was his best sounding Strat (out of a shitload of vintage Strats he's owned), but just falling on it's face and the pickguard breaking changed whatever spoke to him to the point he just sold it.

These guys aren't trying to find something that replicates another thing 1:1, they're looking for stuff that won't be replicated in another piece of gear due to it's uniqueness. And while you can most likely dial in those unique characteristics in a modeler, why would you even bother if your world already cosists of churning vintage gear that you can turn on and in an instant that unique character is there? I certainly wouldn't.
 
RevDrucifer said:
I absolutely love Larry's channel, but that dude's bread and butter is and has been a lifetime of playing vintage instruments into vintage amps in world class studios where you turn on one actual '65 Deluxe that was once owned by some Nashville OG that has a huge pedigree behind him and it's got character unique to that amp because the life it's had, shitty component testing back in the day, stuff swapped out over the years of having it repaired while being broke as a joke, etc. And then all those unique characteristics coming through hundreds of thousands of dollars of pre-amps, mics and engineers who know how to bring out those characteristics that are unique to the gear.

These guys chase gear for their unique characteristics and lore associated with them because that's the ballpark they can afford to play in and the world that exists around them. Larry's also churned out more gear than most guitarists, he's not looking for gear that's consistent wherever he goes to play a gig or session, he's looking for the gear that speaks to him the most within that ballpark. Just like EJ goes through Fuzz Faces and Marshall heads like no one's business, trying to find the perfect ones for what he does. And when they eventually shit out on him, he has to go through the work all over again. And hell, look at EJ with the Virginia Strat; it was his main guitar for about a decade and the one he says was his best sounding Strat (out of a shitload of vintage Strats he's owned), but just falling on it's face and the pickguard breaking changed whatever spoke to him to the point he just sold it.

These guys aren't trying to find something that replicates another thing 1:1, they're looking for stuff that won't be replicated in another piece of gear due to it's uniqueness. And while you can most likely dial in those unique characteristics in a modeler, why would you even bother if your world already cosists of churning vintage gear that you can turn on and in an instant that unique character is there? I certainly wouldn't.
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Well said!!
 
dr bonkers said:
Appealing to such authority is a logical fallacy though the instrument industry is built on it.
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Hear, hear! At the risk of repeating myself...

Guitarists are an insecure and conservative lot. They constantly look over their shoulders at each other in an attempt to figure out what's cool and what they should like. On a lucky day, they'll find a "guru," and they can put on their "Tell me what to believe" hat. Some safe objects of worship are "vintage," "signature," and "that guy on YouTube" (take your pick).

TLDR: If you want to buy a guitar or guitar-related gear, pick the oldest one you can find. Because vintage. We know that Leo Fender and all the others got everything right on the first try, and they spent the rest of their careers fucking up their design. Right? ;)
 
I spent some time last playing my Grosh Set Neck with stock Fralin humbuckers into my FM9 using the stock ODS-100 preset. The tone was glorious and the response to pick attack was detailed and expressive. This is as close as I’ll ever get to a Dumble. The tone was more than good enough for me. I agree with @RevDrucifer take. If I had the money and the time I’d explore the nuances of fine vintage gear. Why not? It’s fun! But my bank account can’t support buying $50k amps ( or even $5k). I’m just grateful to have the selection and quality of an FM9 for less than $2k. I admire the ears and skills of players like Tom Bukovich and Tim Pearce. But in the end, I don’t feel like I’m wanting in any way. I’m guessing that the mad scientist in Cliff will keep making things closer and closer to IRL. In the meantime, what a great time to play guitar.
 
Had an attack of VGG (vintage gear gas) yesterday - saw a JMP-1 for sale at local used gear emporium. Sped over to get it only to find it sold already. Phew! that was a close one! Just as well - would prob ve been staticy n tempermental + not as good as the Axfx version anyway. But wouldv looked cool in my music room rig. Still have an eye peeled for Rockman stuff tho.
 
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Any time its this tired tirade its youtube. For clicks.

If it was serious, there would be a 5-page essay on their website about it.

It’s for clicks.

Stop sharing it - it doesnt matter nor does it help. The discussion never changes. I doubt it ever will. So why do we repeat the cycle?

Slow news day? Go try a new preset.
 
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