Fender FR-12 preamp mod : The Hissterectomy

[davi_ssilva]

It's a real preamp, not just teasing. I modded a V2 into a Frankenstein V3 and tested all this crazy stuff . I am putting together the order for some proofs now.

Well, it's official guys... This man has no sympathy or mercy on our GAS corroded souls.

He wants all of us to suffer and crave during every single second of the V3 development saga.

Every. Single. Second.

 

[200man]

Maybe I'm strange but I don't watch the clear volume knob when gigging, or rehearsing, or even when practicing at home, so for me it's a non-issue.

It’s not strange that you don’t “watch” the volume knob when playing.
There’s hidden sarcasm methinks…
I much prefer the multi position military grade knobs of the eq.

 

[stratzrus]

It’s not strange that you don’t “watch” the volume knob when playing.
There’s hidden sarcasm methinks…
I much prefer the multi position military grade knobs of the eq.

Yeah, it was a feeble attempt at humor.

But my point was that, at least to me, the clear knob is a non-issue because neither I nor the audience can see it when gigging.

 

[Rex]

Now the FR sounds a lot more like the tube amp beside it. The bright setting was what I was missing.

Nice!

Can you make it in a version that won't toast the internals?

 

[WKSmith]

Nice!

Can you make it in a version that won't toast the internals?

Easy, just don't flip the internal mod switches. ..Or dime out the eq.

It's a lot like the V2 when set that way. The eq has more boost now with the high headroom op amps, and after deleting the 4th eq stage for the new cut control . I had to dial the lowest bass bands down a bit. And dial down the horn amp gain.

TBH .. you can tear stuff up with the V2 too. I'm glad no one has smoked anything yet out of 60 or so V2s.

 

[pima1234]

The V3 is for grown ups with some self control. It has enough power to really tear some stuff up in the FR... And we don't have replacement parts.
Nothing against the kids that crank their stuff to 11, but this pre is not for them.

I set the trigger for the clip light much higher ..so when it glows angry red its time to back something off. It can do 125-130dB in the flat setting with the volume near noon.

Yes, I'll take 2.

 

[Rex]

Easy, just don't flip the internal mod switches. ..Or dime out the eq.

It's a lot like the V2 when set that way. The eq has more boost now with the high headroom op amps, and after deleting the 4th eq stage for the new cut control . I had to dial the lowest bass bands down a bit. And dial down the horn amp gain.

TBH .. you can tear stuff up with the V2 too. I'm glad no one has smoked anything yet out of 60 or so V2s.

Understood.

I briefly considered asking how feasible it would be to put in a limiter bypassed with a prominently-labeled "Use At Your Own Risk" switch. Then I realized that would open you up to a whole raft of "I swear I didn't touch that switch" moments.

 

[WKSmith]

Understood.

I briefly considered asking how feasible it would be to put in a limiter bypassed with a prominently-labeled "Use At Your Own Risk" switch. Then I realized that would open you up to a whole raft of "I swear I didn't touch that switch" moments.

There is some extra risk turning it into a hotrod. But good Lord it sounds so much better!

I have spent a lot of time tonight with the V3 FR12 on the left and a V2 gold FR12 on the right and the BadCat in the middle.

I can't keep from sharing this design for worrying that someone might get stupid with it. If it turns ugly, I can always release the V2 design as SMT as another option. Or rip the switches out

 

[Rex]

There is some extra risk turning it into a hotrod. But good Lord it sounds so much better!

I have spent a lot of time tonight with the V3 FR12 on the left and a V2 gold FR12 on the right and the BadCat in the middle.

I can't keep from sharing this design for worrying that someone might get stupid with it. If it turns ugly, I can always release the V2 design as SMT as another option. Or rip the switches out

Forgive the idea hamster that's welling up inside of me...

How much of the new sweetness is the result of the ability to slam the poo out of transients? How much of it would be sacrificed with a limiter in place?

It's been a long day out of town visiting my dad and helping his caregiver with her own health issues. My brain is toast, but this idea keeps intruding.

 

[WKSmith]

Forgive the idea hamster that's welling up inside of me...

How much if the new sweetness is the result of the ability to slam the poo out of transients? How much of it would be sacrificed with a limiter in place?

It's been a long day out of town visiting my dad and helping his caregiver with her own health issues. My brain is toast, but this idea keeps intruding.

Sorry about family health issues. That is stressful stuff.

The limiter would be easy to implement in a digital environment. But for this analog pre, I am certain that a lot of the improvement is from deleting a whole eq stage and splitting the gain between 2 stages. The extra headroom helps a lot with the transients too.

I think adding a limiter is going back in the wrong direction ..where the V3 is proving that less is a whole lot more.

 

[davi_ssilva]

Easy, just don't flip the internal mod switches.

Yup... That's like having a giant roll of bubble wrap and tell yourself to don't pop any of it.

 

[WKSmith]

I was right on point about the V3 going to 18
gain (and overall volume) ratios:

if.. The V2 is 13
The V3 is 14
the V3 with the gain mod on is 17.5

The gain mod is a 25% boost for the V3 and is a 35% boost over the V2.

 

[mtb]

I was right on point about the V3 going to 18
gain (and overall volume) ratios:

if.. The V2 is 13
The V3 is 14
the V3 with the gain mod on is 17.5

The gain mod is a 25% boost for the V3 and is a 35% boost over the V2.

So the V3 with gain mod is basically this:

 

[Greg Ferguson]

It has enough power to really tear some stuff up in the FR.

And there’s the solution for people’s requests that Fractal model dying speakers and amplifier tubes, transformers and other components. Let the cabinet handle it.

Can it let the smoke out too?

 

[AnikaGSD52]

Just send me two…

You had me at “really tear some stuff up…”

 

[stratzrus]

I was right on point about the V3 going to 18
gain (and overall volume) ratios:

if.. The V2 is 13
The V3 is 14
the V3 with the gain mod on is 17.5

The gain mod is a 25% boost for the V3 and is a 35% boost over the V2.

Is the gain mod a clean boost, in effect increasing headroom?

 

[WKSmith]

Is the gain mod a clean boost, in effect increasing headroom?

Yes
The ability to boost the gain is a result of the higher headroom and spreading the gain over more than one gain stage.

 

[pima1234]

View attachment 144260

Just send me two…

You had me at “really tear some stuff up…”

Dude, we've all been saying that... lol

And totally NOT, in any way, a dig at Liam. This is amazing stuff, and super cool to be following.

 

[davi_ssilva]

Hi Liam!

Just a quick question: does the V2 offers phantom power protection for both XLR input and output? Or does it protect only the output?

I'm asking because I remember of you saying that the ground lift switch on the stock FR-12 protected only the XLR output.

P.S.: I can't wait to get the V2 from my cousin next week!!! Man, it has been a loooong August down here!

 

[WKSmith]

Hi Liam!

Just a quick question: does the V2 offers phantom power protection for both XLR input and output? Or does it protect only the output?

I'm asking because I remember of you saying that the ground lift switch on the stock FR-12 protected only the XLR output.

P.S.: I can't wait to get the V2 from my cousin next week!!! Man, it has been a loooong August down here!

Phantom can only come in from the xlr out.

If there was phantom on the xlr input it would have to come from the preamp, which does not output phantom power(any FR-12/10 preamp stock or otherwise).