IRs York Audio Master Thread - Newest Cab Pack: KW 412 M25-SH

[York Audio]

Thanks for the reply!

I'm really surprised about your suggestion of not cutting high end (that for sure will try at next reherashal), as I see in a lot of threads about frfr that everybody is applying heavy cuts, down to like 5k or even lower to smooth the harshness of frfr vs real cabs. Does it apply mainly to recording/going through PA and not to band rehearsal situations where the frfr monitor is your main sound amp?

Sample of it being discussed here: https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/low-and-high-cut-for-live-performance.200541/

If you want to sound natural, don't use high cuts... just tweak your amp's middle, treble, and presence settings like you would on a real amp. We don't have a high cut control when using real amps and cabs, and probably don't ask the sound guy to cut highs in our monitor... we simply turn the knobs to get the response we want. Tweak the amp for what you're hearing instead of compensating for bright amp settings by chopping off the mic'd cab's natural frequency information.

If you turn your middle, treble, and presence knobs to zero, your tone will be unusably dark. So any piercing highs are coming from the amp's settings or a monitor that isn't actually "flat" that's enhancing harsh frequencies.

I toured and did session work for over 25 years and never had anyone put a high cut on my guitar. When I started using an Axe-Fx and cut the highs (like everyone told me to do), my FOH guy always had to boost a ton of top end to make my guitar sit well with the tube amp guys on stage. When I took the high cut off, he didn't touch the EQ on my channel and my guitar sounded fantastic in the mix. Players and FOH guys from other bands were always coming up to me and asking about my rig because it always sounded massive through the PA.

You can also try a darker mic placement like a "CN" or "OA" capture. In any case, amp settings aren't welded into place. So twist some knobs like the real thing and you'll get great results... as long as your monitoring source is accurate.

 

[unix-guy]

I toured and did session work for over 25 years and never had anyone put a high cut on my guitar.

That's interesting to read because I've heard that many (most?) FOH that have "standard" hi and low cuts for guitars.

Maybe you had things dialed in so well that none were required compared to a "typical" guitarist?

 

[York Audio]

That's interesting to read because I've heard that many (most?) FOH that have "standard" hi and low cuts for guitars.

Maybe you had things dialed in so well that none were required compared to a "typical" guitarist?

Low cuts, yes, to clean up low end buildup and make the mix clearer. But high cuts, no. Venues are basically reverb chambers that add a "wash" on the whole mix. Keeping your top end natural helps it to speak in the mix without requiring excessive volume. Darkening a tone makes it less defined in that reverb chamber and requires more volume to be heard; which leads to ear-fatiguing mixes.

Maybe it depends on the sound guy though.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

If you want to sound natural, don't use high cuts... just tweak your amp's middle, treble, and presence settings like you would on a real amp. We don't have a high cut control when using real amps and cabs, and probably don't ask the sound guy to cut highs in our monitor... we simply turn the knobs to get the response we want. Tweak the amp for what you're hearing instead of compensating for bright amp settings by chopping off the mic'd cab's natural frequency information.

If you turn your middle, treble, and presence knobs to zero, your tone will be unusably dark. So any piercing highs are coming from the amp's settings or a monitor that isn't actually "flat" that's enhancing harsh frequencies.

I toured and did session work for over 25 years and never had anyone put a high cut on my guitar. When I started using an Axe-Fx and cut the highs (like everyone told me to do), my FOH guy always had to boost a ton of top end to make my guitar sit well with the tube amp guys on stage. When I took the high cut off, he didn't touch the EQ on my channel and my guitar sounded fantastic in the mix. Players and FOH guys from other bands were always coming up to me and asking about my rig because it always sounded massive through the PA.

You can also try a darker mic placement like a "CN" or "OA" capture. In any case, amp settings aren't welded into place. So twist some knobs like the real thing and you'll get great results... as long as your monitoring source is accurate.

It’s cool hearing you talk about this stuff! So out if curiosity; 2 questions; when you started using the Axe Fx for live, did you use any power amps and cabs on stage with the axe fx as well, and which ones? I love hearing about this gear stuff

And two, what kind of high cuts were you using when you first started using the Axe Fx live as far as frequencies and slopes that resulted in your FOH guy needing to boost top end? Also, was this with Paramore? Ok, more than two questions... hahah

 

[York Audio]

It’s cool hearing you talk about this stuff! So out if curiosity; 2 questions; when you started using the Axe Fx for live, did you use any power amps and cabs on stage with the axe fx as well, and which ones? I love hearing about this gear stuff

And two, what kind of high cuts were you using when you first started using the Axe Fx live as far as frequencies and slopes that resulted in your FOH guy needing to boost top end? Also, was this with Paramore? Ok, more than two questions... hahah

I used a power amp and my trusty Mesa OS 4x12 for some stage volume and feedback, but everything in the monitors and FOH was the Axe-Fx going direct.

When I first started, I set cuts somewhere between 8-10k probably at the 12dB/oct slope. And yup, that was with Paramore.

 

[icarri]

Are you "Taylor York"? wow never realised until now.

Thanks a lot for the in depth and honest answers! will try your tips next weekend at rehearsal with my band, but anyway I'm truly in love with your Bogner 4x12 IR. Now I have a different problem, I was set mainly on Diezel amp sims (Herbert and vh4) that sounded like my old tube head or the Archon and now I have like 3 more favourite amps that sound huge through that IR! (5150 50w blue, Friedman HBE v2, Bogner Ecstasy blue modern).

Sorry for deviating a little your thread, hope this will also help others in the doubt like me.

 

[York Audio]

Are you "Taylor York"? wow never realised until now.

Thanks a lot for the in depth and honest answers! will try your tips next weekend at rehearsal with my band, but anyway I'm truly in love with your Bogner 4x12 IR. Now I have a different problem, I was set mainly on Diezel amp sims (Herbert and vh4) that sounded like my old tube head or the Archon and now I have like 3 more favourite amps that sound huge through that IR! (5150 50w blue, Friedman HBE v2, Bogner Ecstasy blue modern).

Sorry for deviating a little your thread, hope this will also help others in the doubt like me.

I'm Justin York. Taylor is my brother. I'm glad you're liking the Bogner pack! And don't forget about the Solo 100 Lead model. That thing sounds incredible just messing with the Depth and Presence controls.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

I used a power amp and my trusty Mesa OS 4x12 for some stage volume and feedback, but everything in the monitors and FOH was the Axe-Fx going direct.

When I first started, I set cuts somewhere between 8-10k probably at the 12dB/oct slope. And yup, that was with Paramore.

Got ya! That’s interesting to hear! I would feel like 10k wouldn’t be all that uncommon, at least not in a recording scenario, but you must have had your tones dialed in! If 10k was losing information to help you cut, would it be because you didn’t have much 10k+ in the tone to begin with, so since you were cutting, it would actually now be rolling off the very useful stuff from say 8k and down?

This tone talk fascinates me, because your tones, wether on your website or what you post on here sound so great and record ready, but I don’t find them to inherently have a lot of the 8/9k+ frequencies (I call it the “air hose got left on next to the microphone” type stuff haha), so were your tones just dialed in that they didn’t even need the high cuts? Do you dial your tones in differently for live vs what you would do in a studio scenario?

 

[wamoore84]

Have you guys tried leaving the high cut alone and cutting 8k on the output EQ to taste?

 

[York Audio]

Got ya! That’s interesting to hear! I would feel like 10k wouldn’t be all that uncommon, at least not in a recording scenario, but you must have had your tones dialed in! If 10k was losing information to help you cut, would it be because you didn’t have much 10k+ in the tone to begin with, so since you were cutting, it would actually now be rolling off the very useful stuff from say 8k and down?

This tone talk fascinates me, because your tones, wether on your website or what you post on here sound so great and record ready, but I don’t find them to inherently have a lot of the 8/9k+ frequencies (I call it the “air hose got left on next to the microphone” type stuff haha), so were your tones just dialed in that they didn’t even need the high cuts? Do you dial your tones in differently for live vs what you would do in a studio scenario?

The 10k+ range (to me) is the energy and width in a tone. Cutting that area (in my opinion) loses excitement, harmonics, and things that make a sound feel realistic, alive, and "3D" in a mix.

Thanks for the kind words about my tones. I'm glad you like them. It's literally just picking an IR, dialing in the amp without any cuts, and that's it. Let the amp do what it does and let the cab do what it does, ya know?

As far as studio tones vs live tones... it's all about dialing in your sound to sit well in the mix you're in. When I record, I listen to the track I'm playing to and tweak my tone. When I'm in rehearsals with the band, I've got my laptop with Axe-Edit open sitting on my cab and I tweak my tone during and in between songs to make sure I'm sitting in a good spot.

 

[Leeches]

Just saw this thread and I thought I would just say thanks for the awesome IR's. We used the MES 412 OS-V2 on most of the high spacey lines and some of the cleaner tones on our release that came out in December. We've gotten so many compliments on tone and overall sound. Even some reviews / podcasts brought up the tone which is kinda crazy.

 

[York Audio]

Just saw this thread and I thought I would just say thanks for the awesome IR's. We used the MES 412 OS-V2 on most of the high spacey lines and some of the cleaner tones on our release that came out in December. We've gotten so many compliments on tone and overall sound. Even some reviews / podcasts brought up the tone which is kinda crazy.

That's awesome to hear! What's the band and album? I'd love to check it out.

 

[Leeches]

That's awesome to hear! What's the band and album? I'd love to check it out.

Yeah for sure. I think this link will stay online for a while but if not it's Codeseven and Go Let It In is the record. Thanks https://codeseven.lnk.to/goletitin

 

[Joshua_L]

The 10k+ range (to me) is the energy and width in a tone. Cutting that area (in my opinion) loses excitement, harmonics, and things that make a sound feel realistic, alive, and "3D" in a mix.

Thanks for the kind words about my tones. I'm glad you like them. It's literally just picking an IR, dialing in the amp without any cuts, and that's it. Let the amp do what it does and let the cab do what it does, ya know?

As far as studio tones vs live tones... it's all about dialing in your sound to sit well in the mix you're in. When I record, I listen to the track I'm playing to and tweak my tone. When I'm in rehearsals with the band, I've got my laptop with Axe-Edit open sitting on my cab and I tweak my tone during and in between songs to make sure I'm sitting in a good spot.

thats interesting.

i have my fm3 since last year and for last year tour, I cut a lot of highs and yes sounded great on it's own at gig volume (15/20K for) but easily lost in a mix and also had a sense of less 3D tones.

I'm gonna try it your way.

 

[York Audio]

Yeah for sure. I think this link will stay online for a while but if not it's Codeseven and Go Let It In is the record. Thanks https://codeseven.lnk.to/goletitin

Listening now and I love those melodic high spacey lines! Thanks for sharing your music with us.

thats interesting.

i have my fm3 since last year and for last year tour, I cut a lot of highs and yes sounded great on it's own at gig volume (15/20K for) but easily lost in a mix and also had a sense of less 3D tones.

I'm gonna try it your way.

I'd love to hear your thoughts after trying it with the band to see how your tone translates. Just don't forget to retweak your amp settings if necessary.

If it's still dark, try the 57m and 58-1, 2, 3, and CN captures to see if a single mic is a better fit for you. The SM7 and 421m are good alternative options as well.

 

[VegaBaby]

If you want to sound natural, don't use high cuts... just tweak your amp's middle, treble, and presence settings like you would on a real amp. We don't have a high cut control when using real amps and cabs, and probably don't ask the sound guy to cut highs in our monitor... we simply turn the knobs to get the response we want. Tweak the amp for what you're hearing instead of compensating for bright amp settings by chopping off the mic'd cab's natural frequency information.

If you turn your middle, treble, and presence knobs to zero, your tone will be unusably dark. So any piercing highs are coming from the amp's settings or a monitor that isn't actually "flat" that's enhancing harsh frequencies.

I toured and did session work for over 25 years and never had anyone put a high cut on my guitar. When I started using an Axe-Fx and cut the highs (like everyone told me to do), my FOH guy always had to boost a ton of top end to make my guitar sit well with the tube amp guys on stage. When I took the high cut off, he didn't touch the EQ on my channel and my guitar sounded fantastic in the mix. Players and FOH guys from other bands were always coming up to me and asking about my rig because it always sounded massive through the PA.

You can also try a darker mic placement like a "CN" or "OA" capture. In any case, amp settings aren't welded into place. So twist some knobs like the real thing and you'll get great results... as long as your monitoring source is accurate.

amen to that!
... and same here. I've done plenty of touring and even more session jobs and never had anyone reach straight for the Hi Cut. don't know where that idea ever came from. if some highs need to be cut then in the final stages of mixing, but never straight away and as drastic as suggested by some...

 

[Anto]

I only talk to highcut when you're direct to FOH at very highs volume levels, not with FRFR.

Justin, I'm curious about what IR you use direct to FOH with no cut at all. About me, I always use your MIX 1 IR (most of the time both the 412 MARSHALL V30's and the 412 KW M25SH with the BE100 V3 model)

If I don't cut highs at 6000 or 6500 Hz, the highs are too omipresent, they cause pain in ears, it's so unatural, and abrasive... and my settings are the treble at noon and presence at 2 or 3... No matter my guitars used (most of the time Suhr Customs)

I don't unserstand at all, how you can do without higcuts... If i want to keep a smooth but dynamic and natural tone with no high cuts, my treble and presence settings would be too strange, (treble and presence at 0 or 1 max, it's unusual and very strange to set an amp this way)
Maybe it's because of the mix IR I use ? (I always the mix1 with your IR's)

Can you give me some advice of which of your mixes to use direct to FOH at high volume levels ? and keep normal BMTP settings on the amp, and not drastic one please ?

Thank you,

P.S : just to say, I've got always compliments on my guitar tones with your IR's and cut at 80Hz/6000Hz, so I'm very happy this way, but I'm very curious how you do without cuts, to see if I can do as you recomand.

 

[York Audio]

if some highs need to be cut then in the final stages of mixing, but never straight away and as drastic as suggested by some...

This 100%. Cuts should only be used when necessary for the particular mix and not as a "blanket default setting" players have to tweak around.

I only talk to highcut when you're direct to FOH at very highs volume levels, not with FRFR.

Justin, I'm curious about what IR you use direct to FOH with no cut at all. About me, I always use your MIX 1 IR (most of the time both the 412 MARSHALL V30's and the 412 KW M25SH with the BE100 V3 model)

If I don't cut highs at 6000 or 6500 Hz, the highs are too omipresent, they cause pain in ears, it's so unatural, and abrasive... and my settings are the treble at noon and presence at 2 or 3... No matter my guitars used (most of the time Suhr Customs)

I don't unserstand at all, how you can do without higcuts... If i want to keep a smooth but dynamic and natural tone with no high cuts, my treble and presence settings would be too strange, (treble and presence at 0 or 1 max, it's unusual and very strange to set an amp this way)
Maybe it's because of the mix IR I use ? (I always the mix1 with your IR's)

Can you give me some advice of which of your mixes to use direct to FOH at high volume levels ? and keep normal BMTP settings on the amp, and not drastic one please ?

Thank you,

P.S : just to say, I've got always compliments on my guitar tones with your IR's and cut at 80Hz/6000Hz, so I'm very happy this way, but I'm very curious how you do without cuts, to see if I can do as you recomand.

No matter which IR I use, I never use high cuts and simply adjust the amp settings. There's nothing wrong with using "drastic" amp settings if it gives you the tone you want. Scott Henderson sets the Bass on his Plexi at zero, Brian May sets Bass and Treble on his AC30 at zero, a Mesa Mark IV sounds its best with the Treble on 10 with low Bass and Middle settings before the GEQ, I always run Mesa Dual Recs with the Mids at 8-10... my JMP sounds its best with the Presence on 10 and Treble around 3. I remember playing a Plexi that had to be set with the Mids on 10 and Presence and Treble at zero to sound good. All that to say, any knob on an amp is meant to be turned anywhere from zero-10 without any "wrong" setting. It's all about dialing the amp for what you're hearing.

It could also be the amp model you're using. The Friedman stuff tends to have a lot of upper mids (a frequency range that hurts my ears when turned up loud) and not a lot of lively high/airy treble, so I have a hard time bonding with those models. The BE V3 has a ton of these upper mids, so you may want to try using a PEQ after the amp. Try cutting the Type 3 slot at 2360Hz by -2dB to start and use the Solo button "S3" to only hear the frequency range you want to cut. Adjust the Q fairly tight at around 5 or so and sweep that area until you hear something really harsh. Now un-solo the S3 and see how your tone feels. You may want to cut it even more or widen the Q for your personal tastes, but that will help you tame an area that sounds abrasive to you. You can do the same thing for boxy mids or higher frequencies as well. Just try to cut ONLY what you need, otherwise you'll lose the soul of the amp.

I can't really recommend a specific IR for FOH because it all depends on the player, guitar, playing technique, amp, and style. I always chose an IR with character I liked and dialed in my tones through my studio monitors while playing with the album to get a feel for what it would sound like in context with the rest of the band. At rehearsal, my laptop sat on top of my cab with Axe-Edit open and I would make minor tweaks to get things sitting in a good place. Sometimes I'd try a different amp model if the amp I was using wasn't fitting well with the rest of the band.

The sound guy tunes/EQs the PA for the room. If they've done their job well, you shouldn't have any problems with harshness, and any minor tonal issues can easily be addressed at the console.

If you love your tone with a high cut at 6k, that's perfectly fine. There's no wrong way to get a tone as long as it inspires you to play your best.

 

[Anto]

Thanks a lot for your reply Justin

 

[allenma]

This is very interesting, and great information. Thanks for sharing, I often learn some real gems when lurking in this forum. I'm going to have to try this - I'm gigging tonight in a nice room, and the other band's guitarist also uses Fractal. I'm curious to see how things translate in this room, one I haven't played before. FWIW, I use the same YA KW 4x12 for all live presets, run "stereo" with 2 different mic selections.