Celestion F12-X200 vs F12M-150

Which EQ settings do you use with the F12M? I would like to compare but I'm still totally happy with it. Played a few hours and I can't stop anymore ...
 
Paulinfl said:
I put two of the F12M-150 triple cones in a convertible open/closed back lightweight 2x12 pine cab, and it’s now my favorite stage monitor yet for my Fractal gear! I run this a lot with two CLR’s simultaneously for reference and practicing in studio. Together, it’s obviously amazing. The comparison next to the CLRs blow me away how well this speaker performs at any volume, and the CAB feel is there. Coupled with the new DynaCabs, I’m in heaven. Check them out, you may like them.
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Do you find yourself using the cab open or closed? How would you describe the difference?
 
marsonic said:
Do you find yourself using the cab open or closed? How would you describe the difference?
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I think I find I like it best with the cab closed, but IMO that's totally subjective to the DynaCab/IR in my preset, room, level, and who I'm playing with. I don't like it one way more than another really, rather whatever makes it fill out the area the best at the time. It's nice to pop it open in a room that's lacking low end I guess. My port cover is really easy to pop in or out (made it myself). So it's really trial and error for me, but I default to it closed. I power it with a PS170 (if traveling light) or a Feyette Powerstation-which is killer. Mostly stick to the Rumble EV DynaCab for all my current band tones. In the band, I use the Twin and Soldano models for tones mostly, but it changes.
 
yup - I play at low volume and really like them - no changes to my presets running various DynaCab IRs dialed in on studio mons except for a standard eq tweak that works across all my presets for the triple cone enclosures.
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Agree! Low-volume practice is amazing on these -which does not take away from their abilities while opening them up at band volume at all... They sound amazing at gig volume too IMO!
 
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TheRedDevil said:
Which EQ settings do you use with the F12M? I would like to compare but I'm still totally happy with it. Played a few hours and I can't stop anymore ...
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This one across all presets and on a switch so only active when using F12Ms, but caution as this may have more to do with the enclosures I have, the amp driving them (Matrix GT1000Fx), my ears, and room than with the speakers themselves. It's not dramatic - the cabs actually sound fine without it across varied presets - just a tweak. The low cut is redundant to what I often do in the Cab block anyway, but I have it there consistently for the F12Ms as I find the low can sometimes cover the hi a bit without. Re The 250hz cut - not really sure why I like having that there with F12Ms - my ears seem to hear that tweak bringing the sound closer to my studio mons (Yam HS8+Sub) where I dial in my patches initially. I'm not cranking 10k+ as I don't think it can be forced on a speaker not spec'd to produce those frequencies - but, little need anyway, as I always rolloff my cab block at 8 or 9k.
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Thank you. I also have the low cut around 75Hz. I also think it's because of the cab and because of the position in front of the wall. In a larger room it should not be necessary. Currently I also use it with the KRKs. A bit of optimization. Possibly I just need to crank 10k+ because of the Marshall Basketweave which reduces treble and because of I like crunchy treble sound. The treble sound still sounds like a 12" speaker, not the same like the KRKs, but in my opinion it better fits together with the KRK sound. Before the separation between both speakers was a bit to extreme.
 
I was so interested that I also ordered a F12-X200. I will compare both and give you my feedback. Reason: The F12M sounds better than my Greenback, no reason to keep it and I would like to have the sound of 2x12", if I really need it, I don't know, but I could imagine that both FRFR speakers sound a bit better together. Let me hear, if not, I will send it back.
 
First impression: Well, I made a side by side comparision. To get the F12M prefered tone (Out1) I needed to adapt the EQ (Out4) of the F12. Now it's pretty much the same (like my monitors). I feel the 5.5kHz hole which has the character of a blanket on the speaker. But with the EQ adaption its not there anymore and I have the feeling that on high frequencies the F12 is clearer - I think the F12M is already distorting a bit. The most of the time I prefered the F12M because it's much easier to find a great tone from the beginning. The F12 gives you more possibilies on high frequencies, which are mostly not necessary. I did not test the lower frequencies but it was no problem in my closed standard cab. With the low cut around 75Hz is pretty much the same. I think I will keep both for max. flexibility but I still need my monitors for the stereo feeling (I don't use stereo effects currently but two ears need two speakers).
 

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TheRedDevil said:
First impression: Well, I made a side by side comparision. To get the F12M prefered tone (Out1) I needed to adapt the EQ (Out4) of the F12. Now it's pretty much the same (like my monitors). I feel the 5.5GHz hole which has the character of a blanket on the speaker. But with the EQ adaption its not there anymore and I have the feeling that on high frequencies the F12 is clearer - I think the F12M is already distorting a bit. The most of the time I prefered the F12M because it's much easier to find a great tone from the beginning. The F12 gives you more possibilies on high frequencies, which are mostly not necessary. I did not test the lower frequencies but it was no problem in my standard cab. With the low cut around 75Hz is pretty much the same. I think I will keep both for max. flexibility but I still need my monitors for the stereo feeling (I don't use stero effects currently but two ears need two speakers).
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Looking at that guitar rack and username certainly checks out \m/
 
TheRedDevil said:
First impression: Well, I made a side by side comparision. To get the F12M prefered tone (Out1) I needed to adapt the EQ (Out4) of the F12. Now it's pretty much the same (like my monitors). I feel the 5.5GHz hole which has the character of a blanket on the speaker. But with the EQ adaption its not there anymore and I have the feeling that on high frequencies the F12 is clearer - I think the F12M is already distorting a bit. The most of the time I prefered the F12M because it's much easier to find a great tone from the beginning. The F12 gives you more possibilies on high frequencies, which are mostly not necessary. I did not test the lower frequencies but it was no problem in my standard cab. With the low cut around 75Hz is pretty much the same. I think I will keep both for max. flexibility but I still need my monitors for the stereo feeling (I don't use stero effects currently but two ears need two speakers).
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Thanks for the comparison. Based on what you wrote, I'm confused about which eq was applied to which speaker. Can you clarify? The X200 has the 5k dip so I guess eq4 applies to it?
 
TheRedDevil said:
Wow, did you changed your last PEQ settings?
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Below is what I have now. I go back and forth on trying to force up the highs in F12M. Though I currently have the highs boosted, and it seems a bit more "true" accross varying presets to my ear in latest listening, I'm a bit skeptical toward that move because I had always understood that you can't really "add in" something that a speaker does not have (ie 10K+ for the F12M). I guess it is the 7k-10k influence of that boost that seems to make a difference?

The small dip I have at 250 is, I think, maybe something to do with the cab enclosures I'm using (closed back ported). I've been experimenting with shoving various materials into the ports to see if I can remove that low end difference but I don't know if my ears are really good enough for this type of tweaking. I have a reference mic so was going to try to measure them and EQ match to my studio monitors to see what differences I get.

Overall though, I'm waaaay happier with these F12Ms than I was with my previous FR cab speakers.

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Edit - the thing I have to keep in mind with these F12M cabs is that I don't really want them to sound like my studio monitors that exactly - I want them to translate decently across presets, with, if necessary, the help of one standard EQ - but, I also want them to sound more like a traditional guitar cab (which my studio monitors do not). I think the F12Ms are getting me well into that neighbourhood, so I'm satisfied to keep them as one of my output choices (currently I can select: 1- stud mons, OR 2 - SSamp + V30 CB cabs, OR 3 - tube amp returns + C90 and Vtyp Open back cabs, OR 4 - SSamp + F12M cabs - each has their own nuance and I go through periods of using each. 1 and 4 use the same presets but with the added EQ above turned on for option 4. 2 and 3 both have dedicated presets.
 
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The KRK studio monitors are just a nice add on. Just the cab with the F12M would give you enough possibilies. Possibly two F12M loaded cabs could be a great alternative.
 
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sprint said:
Below is what I have now. I go back and forth on trying to force up the highs in F12M. Though I currently have the highs boosted, and it seems a bit more "true" accross varying presets to my ear, I'm a bit skeptical toward that move because I had always understood that you can't really "add in" something that a speaker does not have (ie 10K+ for the F12M). I guess it is the 7k-10k influence of that boost that seems to make a difference?

The dip I have at 250 is, I think, maybe something to do with the cabs I'm using (closed back ported). I've been experimenting with shoving various materials into the ports to see if I can remove that low end difference but I don't know if my ears are really good enough for this type of tweaking. I have a reference mic so was going to try to measure them and EQ match to my studio monitors to see what I get.

Overall though, I'm waaaay happier with these F12Ms than I was with my previous FR cab speakers.

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Great, thank you! I also will try this out. I also don't know if my ears are so good. I also learned, that I can never trust my ears w/o a long pause between the tests. Next day it normally sound different. But I really think, that both speakers are good enough for everything. If you prefer crunchy treble it could be better to take the F12 but the difference is minimal and I don't like this blanket on the speaker effect. You need to EQ both, the F12M is easier to handle in EQ. Both speakers together is possible but a bit difficult to find a good EQ and volume balance but it's possible. If it's necessary, I don't now yet. I just do it, because I sell me Greenbacks and I got the F12 cheap.

P.S: But I'm sure that you need to be able to EQ every single speaker. Both together and just one EQ for both speaker in parallel is no good idea. Well, you need enough channels on your solid state amp.
 
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sprint said:
Edit - the thing I have to keep in mind with these F12M cabs is that I don't really want them to sound like my studio monitors that exactly - I want them to translate decently across presets, with, if necessary, the help of one standard EQ - but, I also want them to sound more like a traditional guitar cab (which my studio monitors do not). I think the F12Ms are getting me well into that neighbourhood, so I'm satisfied to keep them as one of my output choices (currently I can select: 1- stud mons, OR 2 - SSamp + V30 CB cabs, OR 3 - tube amp returns + C90 and Vtyp Open back cabs, OR 4 - SSamp + F12M cabs - each has their own nuance and I go through periods of using each. 1 and 4 use the same presets but with the added EQ above turned on for 4. 2 and 3 both have dedicated presets.
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Yeah, I also saw this issue. Do I want the 12" speakers to act as a FRFR studio monitor too or shall they sound like a standard 12" bass/mid speaker of a guitar cab and the details shall come from the studio monitor (3-way-speaker idea)?
Currently I think I want the 12" speaker sound more like both, the F12 has more this terrible treble character of a studio monitor -which the F12M doesn't have. But with a high cut you can let it sound like the F12M. But it's a difficult thing. Possibly I reduce the higher frequencies in future and I let the studio monitors take over that task alone. Currently I like it, but I still have the old AC/DC crunch sound from the early years in my bones (e.g. the beginning of AC/DC - Riff Raff). If you like metal, that's no topic for you and the F12M is good enough,
 
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