Input Clipping Thread

State of Epicicity said:
So you're saying for sure that it lacks an input clip indicator, that instead the LED is actually the overall signal
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Me? No, I did not say that. The Axe-FX has obviously lacked an input clip indicator until now, but I have no idea what "overall signal" means :).

TBH, I'm not sure there is really anything to be said on this subject beyond: We now have the tools to use a more precise procedure for adjusting the input sensitivity: Turn it up until you are just shy of getting the input clip warning.
 
State of Epicicity said:
Okay, I see. I was speed reading many posts and missed this:



So you're saying for sure that it lacks an input clip indicator, that instead the LED is actually



But aren't you guys just guessing that too?



I mean, isn't the point of public betas to find potential bugs? I don't think that's OCD; I think it's a cool way to find little things that might've been missed. And maybe this input clip warning is correcting the vagueness of the wording in the manual, but I think it's a cool thing in this case to help clarify any confusion.
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I posted these earlier in the thread and they are from Yek's guide. I think it says exactly what I have been saying all through this thread.

"Full-scale is a term that indicates the maximum signal level into or out of an A/D or D/A converter, respectively. With digital converters the best performance is achieved by operating the converter such that the nominal signal level is close to full-scale. The exact voltage is unknown and irrelevant. Most digital gear will have indicators that measure the levels relative to the converter's full-scale value. For example, the input meters on the Axe-Fx indicate the input signal relative to the A/D converter's full-scale value. The "tickle the red" advice aims to operate the A/D converter near its full-scale value as the red LEDs light at 6 dB below full-scale, or -6 dBFS."
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(Axe-Fx II) "The Input Trim control in the I/O menu is before the A/D. You can use that to reduce the level into the A/D. If you want 4 dB of gain reduction: A = 10^(-4/20) = 0.63. So you need to reduce your input pad by 37%. The new value is 0.243 * 0.63 = 0.153 => 15.3%" [48]
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(Axe-Fx III) "There is no single optimum setting. If you have hot pickups with thick strings and a heavy hand you may need to set it at 10% or less. If you have vintage single-coils with thin strings and a light touch, 100%. Adjust it to tickle the red when playing hard." [49]
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(Axe-Fx III) "Set the Input Trim so the meters ON THE FRONT PANEL tickle the red when strumming fairly hard." [50]
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"Input 1 is normalized to 1V. The other inputs are normalized to 8V. 20 * log10(8) = 18 dB."
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(Cooper Carter) "The Instrument Level is to make it so the A/D converter hears the best signal it possibly can. So say you have a super low output Strat. You crank up the input level so that that Strat is hitting the converter at a level that is making sure it's well above the (very low) noise floor of the Axe-Fx. The A/D does its work and then brings down the signal it outputs to the processor by the same amount you gained up, so that what is coming in is going out, regardless. Conversely, if you have a super hot guitar, like an EBMM JP15, it's already hitting the A/D way above the noise floor, and you don't want to add unnecessary noise by having the input higher than it needs to be to convert the signal at an optimal level. So you turn the input level down a good bit. The converter then compensates for how much you turned down by bringing up the signal by an equal amount before it outputs to the processor. The signal hitting your grid (i.e. pedals, amps, whatever) is in theory unchanged in level from what is coming out of your guitar. You've just optimized the level at which it's being A/D converted. You "can't" really "clip" the input given that it takes drive pedals and what-have-you just as well as an amp does." [51]
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"Below 5% the gain decreases so, yes, it will be quieter." [52]
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"Input dynamic range has everything to do with the ability to handle low level signals. The normalized gain of even a medium gain tube amp can be over 60 dB. If your input dynamic range is only 96 dB and you leave 6 dB of headroom your noise floor is now a paltry -30 dB. There's a reason modeling products use various techniques to improve input dynamic range including dual-range A/D techniques, channel doubling, companding, pre/de-emphasis, etc. Algorithms are extremely important. However usually the quality of the algorithm is proportional to its complexity. The higher the complexity the more powerful the processor required. One of the main reasons today's modelers sound so much better than they did just a decade ago is the increase in computing power allowing more advanced algorithms." [53]
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(Axe-Fx III) "Below 5% that the gain compensation stops increasing." [54]
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"The inputs can handle up to +18dBu. Use the Input Sensitivity controls to adjust accordingly." [55]
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"Firmware 22 for the Axe-Fx III and later add an on-screen warning about input clipping, because signal peaks can clip the signal, even when the Input LED meter doesn't flashes red."

"Many things contribute: number of windings, magnet strength, distance from strings, string type and gauge, pick thickness, how hard you pick, etc. Nothing has changed in the input processing. The clip indicator trips when the input is within 0.5 dB of full-scale. If if trips you should turn down the sensitivity." [56]
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GlennO said:
Me? No, I did not say that. The Axe-FX has obviously lacked an input clip indicator until now, but I have no idea what "overall signal" means :).
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I actually said that. What I was getting at, is the average or "overall" level is most likely what is being seen on the LED and the slight peaks the LED is not catching when clipping, however, the new clip "alarm" is catching these quick amplitude spikes and maybe more for those who thought more is more signal, LOL.
 
I have zero clipping message , even with my musicman JP7 that is hotter than hell . And I'm at 50% default . (MK1) maybe your presets aren’t levelled ?

 
I am finding it is my high output passive pickups that are causing input clipping more than my active pickups. I just plugged in my 7 string ibanez with dimarzio pickups and at 15%, where my 6 string esp with fluence moderns was not clipping, it was clipping the inputs full on no matter how I hit the strings. I had to set it to 4% to get the warning to stop flashing. More experiments needed to see how it all sounds, so far, my experience is the lower I set it, the better it seems to sound.
 
I’m using low output PAF style humbuckers and P-90s and I start getting warnings with it set around 8%. Most of my guitars are pretty bright, I wonder if it’s more sensitive to high frequencies.
 
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