Input Clipping Thread

AlGrenadine said:
Ok i'll try tomorrow with the same cable
Click to expand...
So, I normally use a wireless going into the rear input. I didn't think it would have been a factor because I keep it set to the manufacturer's recommended unity gain setting and have never had any reason to doubt that it was actually unity gain. It sounds similar enough to going straight into the front input that I assumed it was not boosting my signal. But if I bypass the wireless and use the rear input, I can set the sensitivity to 15% or 20% just like when using the front input. I've lowered the gain on my wireless and now see no difference between front and rear.
 
TSJMajesty said:
Absolutely. I rarely use it, but if/when I do, I obviously don't want the Axe to clip.

I've considered setting the input level without the boost, but I don't hear any difference.
Click to expand...
That makes sense! One of mine has a 15db boost, and I have that trim pot as low as it can go
 
Chromatizm said:
I tried it on FM3. Results are... confusing to say the least.

This is the graph of the same "strum as hard as I can" pattern, switching from 0db to 18db padding on FM3 with Fishman Abasi's bridge.
As you can see, the "gain compensation" algorithm works... backwards. 0db is the most flat and compressed, but the higher padding value you set, the louder and more dynamic the input signal is!
So basically the manual should say - always use the lowest value unless you playing extreme metal?..

I validated the results many times with the help of other person switching the input padding on the device and watching lights.
It confirms my testing in other thread, where I was able to quite clearly and repeatedly hear the difference between 0db and 6db padding in a blind test, and many times guess 18dB because it was thinner sounding. I played lightly in that testing, but results are the same - the clarity was ALWAYS on 6dB and lower, never on 0dB. Again - with a very light touch where nothing was red on the meters!
View attachment 118425 View attachment 118426
The first result is clipped probably because of the input clipping on my Zoom UAC-2 which is used as a proxy, so for the rest of the tests I've used a much lower input value on the interface input.

0dB peaks look like this (below):
View attachment 118427
6dB peaks looks like this (below):
View attachment 118428
12dB:
View attachment 118429
16dB:
View attachment 118430
Two more tests - first is a simple chord with open A, low to medium strumming, and a second is a blues phrase, light touch, switching 0-6-12-18dB.
View attachment 118431View attachment 118432
0dB peaks are totally smashed, while the input led was barely touching orange during this test. And here's the highest peak of the 18dB of the second test (the one on the right):
View attachment 118433
Looks good! And the dynamics seems to be the same for 12 and 18 dBs.

Also, for anyone who's doing this test, watch the output clip - I've realized at some point, that it also blinked red, so I had to redo the test with the 1/3 of the OUT1 volume.

In one of other tests I've got 6dB peaks smashed also, so I'll stay with 12dB on the input and 1/3 on the output so far until I understand this further. It was when I touched the strings hard, but not really hard. Seems like the algo tried to level it but ended up clipping it same way as 0dB.
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing this! Wouldn't the easiest way to test this be just to use the Axe-FX III as the interface to record a dry track? Just to reduce any other variables?
 
Just rewatched Cooper Carter's Master Class for AxeIII about I/O set-ups. He ends the chapter by saying, "I never touch this (default setting)." ... It was set at 50%. Granted this was back in 2019, this may (most likely) change with the final FW for the Dyna-Cabs. Regardless, I'm learning a lot about the AxeIII with this FW (as I have with other FW updates).
 
Patzag said:
I just ran a very simple test:

1. Create a preset with Synth block going to Out 3. Also add an input 1 block. Does not need to go anywhere.
2. Set synth to sine wave, no tracking.
3. Out 3 on full. Route cable from Out 3 to front input.
4. Set the AD sensitivity to 100%
5. Increase the output of synth until the red "tickles". in my test it was +10dB
6. Increase output until clipping indicator comes on. In my test it was 15.5 exactly.

So there you go. Red light comes on at -6dB. Clipping indicator at -0.5.

End of story.

Set your sensitivity accordingly.
Click to expand...
unix-guy said:
Science!
Click to expand...

Yeah, clever (like an engineer/scientist)! I would have done the same if it had occurred to me :smile:

We need more Patzags up in here! 'Stead of damn opinions and hearsay.
 
Using Mr Fenders instructions, I've settled on 10%.
One of my guitars didn't clip until 85%.

Now it's set, I'm taking Yeks advice....forgedaboudit. :)
 
Chromatizm said:
I tried it on FM3. Results are... confusing to say the least.

This is the graph of the same "strum as hard as I can" pattern, switching from 0db to 18db padding on FM3 with Fishman Abasi's bridge.
As you can see, the "gain compensation" algorithm works... backwards. 0db is the most flat and compressed, but the higher padding value you set, the louder and more dynamic the input signal is!
So basically the manual should say - always use the lowest value unless you playing extreme metal?..

I validated the results many times with the help of other person switching the input padding on the device and watching lights.
It confirms my testing in other thread, where I was able to quite clearly and repeatedly hear the difference between 0db and 6db padding in a blind test, and many times guess 18dB because it was thinner sounding. I played lightly in that testing, but results are the same - the clarity was ALWAYS on 6dB and lower, never on 0dB. Again - with a very light touch where nothing was red on the meters!
View attachment 118425 View attachment 118426
The first result is clipped probably because of the input clipping on my Zoom UAC-2 which is used as a proxy, so for the rest of the tests I've used a much lower input value on the interface input.

0dB peaks look like this (below):
View attachment 118427
6dB peaks looks like this (below):
View attachment 118428
12dB:
View attachment 118429
16dB:
View attachment 118430
Two more tests - first is a simple chord with open A, low to medium strumming, and a second is a blues phrase, light touch, switching 0-6-12-18dB.
View attachment 118431View attachment 118432
0dB peaks are totally smashed, while the input led was barely touching orange during this test. And here's the highest peak of the 18dB of the second test (the one on the right):
View attachment 118433
Looks good! And the dynamics seems to be the same for 12 and 18 dBs.

Also, for anyone who's doing this test, watch the output clip - I've realized at some point, that it also blinked red, so I had to redo the test with the 1/3 of the OUT1 volume.

In one of other tests I've got 6dB peaks smashed also, so I'll stay with 12dB on the input and 1/3 on the output so far until I understand this further. It was when I touched the strings hard, but not really hard. Seems like the algo tried to level it but ended up clipping it same way as 0dB.
Click to expand...
Those waveforms don't look like a DI signal.
I think someone already asked, is that a straight In1>Out1(nothing in between) preset?
 
I only have one guitar, a Jazzmaster with Kinman Fatmasters (I think - whatever the one most similar to regular JM pickups is) - I can crank sensitivity up to 100% and not get a clipping warning. A hard strum peaks in the first yellow light FWIW. I put it back to 50 and figure I'll just leave it there.

MkII Turbo, front input.

Edit: well, based on further reading I actually moved it up to 100% since that doesn't seem to generate clipping so why not.
 
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Ok... I had to put my Input Sensitivity to 100% and play with a pick and not fingers. The pick transients are definitely key, I think.

I do a lot of string "snapping" when I play with my fingers and I was trying to trigger the warning and couldn't make it happen so moved from 50-> 100%. Still nothing until I played with a pick and then it triggered a few times.

This was on a Charvel DK-24 on the bridge pickup SD Full Shred.

Switched to my Tom Anderson that has louder pickups and couldn't make it happen.

My Axe Fx is a mkI and using front input.
 
From all the responses, it seems that there may be slightly higher sensitivity in MK II. @yek however said that he has both and doesn’t notice a difference. Can anyone with MK II get no clipping on 100%, for me personally anything on MKII over 40% triggers the clip indicator very easily, regardless of pickup/guitar.
 
State of Epicicity said:
Wouldn't the easiest way to test this be just to use the Axe-FX III as the interface to record a dry track? Just to reduce any other variables?
Click to expand...
It would be, I plan to do it today. I was hoping for a quick check to confirm if I have a clipping on 0dB, but the results were so unexpected that I forgot about everything else :)
Zedhed said:
I think someone already asked, is that a straight In1>Out1(nothing in between) preset?
Click to expand...
Yes
1680086915052.png
I was too lazy to select an empty preset, but this just as good!
 
Chromatizm said:
It would be, I plan to do it today. I was hoping for a quick check to confirm if I have a clipping on 0dB, but the results were so unexpected that I forgot about everything else :)

Yes
View attachment 118461
I was too lazy to select an empty preset, but this just as good!
Click to expand...

Out1 boosts the signal by 18dB though, so you could get output clipping before the input clips.
And also keep in mind that turning down the out1 physical knob doesn't avoid clipping on digital outs (usb, spdif and aes) since it only turns down the analog outs.

Imho better to make this test by recording the instrument input directly, either via spdif/aes or usb
 
Shahar said:
From all the responses, it seems that there may be slightly higher sensitivity in MK II. @yek however said that he has both and doesn’t notice a difference. Can anyone with MK II get no clipping on 100%, for me personally anything on MKII over 40% triggers the clip indicator very easily, regardless of pickup/guitar.
Click to expand...

I have two MK1s and two MKII Turbos, and my experience is the same as Yek's. I do not notice a difference between them in terms of input level or clipping. Maybe I missed it in all the responses, but I didn't see anyone else directly comparing different AxeFx units -- not sure where the conclusion is coming from that the MKII is more sensitive.

I am able to crank the A/D Sensitivity to 100% on a MKII and play normally without clipping when using my Asher resonator guitar, which has a gold foil pickup. That level is too hot for most of my other guitars though. (Right now I've got my input level set at 58%.)

When you say "regardless of pickup/guitar"... what specifically did you do to eliminate the pickup/guitar as a variable? Have you tested with someone else's guitars that aren't setup like yours? Have you made any adjustments -- pickup height, string gauge, etc -- and completed an A/B test with only that change in order to rule it out?

It seems to reason that the main variable in terms of input level would be the thing generating the input signal, which is the guitar. It also seems unlikely any differences between AxeFX units would be a contributing factor as that is the least likely thing to vary here. (They use interchangeable input board PCBs/circuitry; it's digitally controlled; the components are high quality with low variance; etc.) Guitars, on the other hand -- including how they are setup, and how they are played -- vary wildly.
 
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