Flattening the headrush curve

marsonic said:
The corrected one.

It's the same as the over saturated colors on TVs in the store. Or the loudness wars.

Once you get home, the flaws show up.
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True it's all about getting customers excited and the adrenaline flowing so they BUY in the MOMENT.
 
scottp said:
Does anyone know if there is a corrective EQ curve for the HeadRush 112?
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There is not. I have an alto 112. It is an entirely different beast. Perhaps one day I will try to correct it. But it is not a good sounding platform for guitar in my humble opinion ...and considerable experience.
 
@WKSmith,

Like many of you within this forum post, I own 2 HR FRFR108's.

With FM9 v. 4.00 it wasn't possible to dial in the Q parameters within global EQ settings to anything close to what you had described for the FM3. It was possible to dial in the FM3 settings. Thanks for doing the leg work; what you've done is walked us through almost everything necessary to accomplish a flat parametric EQ "house" curve.

My question, if you'll allow me, is that personally I utilize Output 1 L/R for FOH, and will use Output 2 L for single floor monitor. HR108's Contour switches are flat, FM9 Output 1 is copied to Output 2, FM9 Output 2 volume = 0.

May I ask, are there additional global EQ settings that need adjustment besides the Q filters? Does Output 2 global EQ need any adjustment considering my previous description of my FM9 rig, if an HR108 would be used as floor monitor?

Although I've not heard my rig since the adjustments, I'll say thanks in advance for saving me money with your research which will be used for more pressing needs. Perhaps someday when finances allow, I might consider alternatives to my HR108s. Yet for the time, I'm thankful for what you've done thus far for people who own HR108s.
 
bleujazz3 said:
@WKSmith,

Like many of you within this forum post, I own 2 HR FRFR108's.

With FM9 v. 4.00 it wasn't possible to dial in the Q parameters within global EQ settings to anything close to what you had described for the FM3. It was possible to dial in the FM3 settings. Thanks for doing the leg work; what you've done is walked us through almost everything necessary to accomplish a flat parametric EQ "house" curve.

My question, if you'll allow me, is that personally I utilize Output 1 L/R for FOH, and will use Output 2 L for single floor monitor. HR108's Contour switches are flat, FM9 Output 1 is copied to Output 2, FM9 Output 2 volume = 0.

May I ask, are there additional global EQ settings that need adjustment besides the Q filters? Does Output 2 global EQ need any adjustment considering my previous description of my FM9 rig, if an HR108 would be used as floor monitor?

Although I've not heard my rig since the adjustments, I'll say thanks in advance for saving me money with your research which will be used for more pressing needs. Perhaps someday when finances allow, I might consider alternatives to my HR108s. Yet for the time, I'm thankful for what you've done thus far for people who own HR108s.
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Thank you ..my brother in tone!

I would use the eq correction on out 2 to drive the HR108 and leave out 1 without global eq. I run just one of my 108s lately using out 3 on my FM9, but feed it with L&R so I don't lose half of my stereo Fx.

Honestly the eq correction is intended for creating presets that translate well into a FOH mix (almost exactly like using my studio monitors). The stock headrush curve will cause us to make exaggerated eq decisions.

I find that playing live it is not as important to correct the 108 (that really only I can hear) .. especially once the drums and stage volume come up . I use mine on the floor too.

I believe that when applying out 2 global eq, it is still active even when using copy out 1>2. I need to confirm that though. I use a separate block with global eq on the Out3 block for the wedge(s). I use both Out 1 and 2 without any global eq with Out 2 set to sum L+R for a mono FOH feed.

And yes, this correction needs adjustment to all 5 filters individual controls ..freq, gain, and Q for each band . If you can get the Q close it will still work. My FM3 and FM9 were impossible to get the Q set exactly the same.

Like you, I am considering an upgrade soon. Probably the EV PXM 12MP that several folks I trust and respect here are using. I mostly use in-ears live ... so wedges still won't get much use unless I start playing large festival stages again so the guitar can hear the amp in the room, and to be able to pull out my in- ears if the mix is bad.
 
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WKSmith said:
Thank you ..my brother in tone!

I would use the eq correction on out 2 to drive the HR108 and leave out 1 without global eq. I run just one of my 108s lately using out 3 on my FM9, but feed it with L&R so I don't lose half of my stereo Fx.

Honestly the eq correction is intended for creating presets that translate well into a FOH mix (like using studio monitors) the stock headrush curve will cause us to make exaggerated eq decisions.

I find that playing live it is not as important to correct the 108 (that really only I can hear) .. especially once the drums and stage volume come up . I use mine on the floor too.

I believe that when applying out 2 global eq, it is still active even when using copy out 1>2

And yes, this correction needs adjustment to all 5 filters individual controls ..freq, gain, and Q for each band . If you can get the Q close it will still work. My FM3 and FM9 were impossible to get the Q set exactly the same.

Like you, I am considering an upgrade soon. Probably the EV PXM 12MP that several folks I trust and respect here are using. I mostly use in-ears live ... so wedges still won't get much use unless I start playing large festival stages again so the guitar can hear the amp in the room, and to be able to pull out my in- ears if the mix is bad.
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@WKSmith,

Thanks very much for your response. 😊

My current rig includes 2 HR108s on stands; the floor monitor would be an afterthought when lugging an HR108 to a venue where FOH is provided. The 2 HR108s are used in stereo that accompany JBL computer monitors.

If I read correctly, you're saying that the EQ adjustments are only needed for when the HR108 is used as a floor wedge? Or, will they also improve the quality of the 108s (sent thru Output 1 L/R) when placed on stands? If so, what adjustments are needed for frequency and gain? From what I've previously read within these past several pages, only Q filter adjustments were mentioned...

In other news, as alternatives, my recent viewing includes Yamaha DBR10's, and QSC CP8's. I think I've ruled out JBL IRX108BT's for the time being, simply because the bluetooth feature reportedly doesn't work as well as one might need if putting iTunes background music thru the JBL's.

The CP8's are 1000 peak / ~ 500W RMS, not as much as the HR108s, but with better frequency response and SPL level output. These will likely be enough for my needs. The DBR10s, by contrast, are 700W peak / 275W RMS, which may not be enough for a medium-size 50-person room.

My finances aren't on par with wealthier folks, but I'm currently happy with the HR108s for the time until mid-range priced replacements might be possible. I realize that things like Atomic CLR MKIIs or Xitone's may be above my pay grade, so any help with current gear improvements are appreciated.
 
bleujazz3 said:
@WKSmith,

Thanks very much for your response. 😊

My current rig includes 2 HR108s on stands; the floor monitor would be an afterthought when lugging an HR108 to a venue where FOH is provided. The 2 HR108s are used in stereo that accompany JBL computer monitors.

If I read correctly, you're saying that the EQ adjustments are only needed for when the HR108 is used as a floor wedge? Or, will they also improve the quality of the 108s (sent thru Output 1 L/R) when placed on stands? If so, what adjustments are needed for frequency and gain? From what I've previously read within these past several pages, only Q filter adjustments were mentioned...

In other news, as alternatives, my recent viewing includes Yamaha DBR10's, and QSC CP8's. I think I've ruled out JBL IRX108BT's for the time being, simply because the bluetooth feature reportedly doesn't work as well as one might need if putting iTunes background music thru the JBL's.

The CP8's are 1000 peak / ~ 500W RMS, not as much as the HR108s, but with better frequency response and SPL level output. These will likely be enough for my needs. The DBR10s, by contrast, are 700W peak / 275W RMS, which may not be enough for a medium-size 50-person room.

My finances aren't on par with wealthier folks, but I'm currently happy with the HR108s for the time until mid-range priced replacements might be possible. I realize that things like Atomic CLR MKIIs or Xitone's may be above my pay grade, so any help with current gear improvements are appreciated.
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I added the Q settings to the very first post that has the complete eq settings for freq and gain.. shown in the screen shot from FM Edit.

The correction will help greatly when using the 108s as a backline. There will be less low end from being on stands (which is a good thing)

I isolated the 108s from the floor and walls with a huge slab of memory foam when I shot these REW curves. So they should translate nicely to stand mounted. They will likely be more boomy when used as a wedge coupled to the floor.

Compare your JBL monitors without global eq ...to the 108s with global eq. You will definitely hear what the correction is doing when bypassing the eq.7F314667-6BC2-493F-B391-078A17896DB1.png
 
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WKSmith said:
I added the Q settings to the very first post that has the complete eq settings for freq and gain.. shown in the screen shot from FM Edit.

The correction will help greatly when using the 108s as a backline. There will be less low end from being on stands (which is a good thing)

I isolated the 108s from the floor and walls with a huge slab of memory foam when I shot these REW curves. So they should translate nicely to stand mounted. They will likely be more boomy when used as a wedge coupled to the floor.

Compare your JBL monitors without global eq ...to the 108s with global eq. You will definitely hear what the correction is doing when bypassing the eq.View attachment 112843
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That's what I needed. Thanks. Will test drive this Sunday afternoon. I think there was something else that I didn't catch; does copying Output 1 to Output 2 also translate globally, EQ-wise, or would the same parameters be necessary for sending Output 2 thru as a floor wedge?

Also, is it possible to modify Q filters with numeric keyboard, or does one need to do this manually via front panel or FM9-Edit knob?
 
bleujazz3 said:
That's what I needed. Thanks. Will test drive this Sunday afternoon. I think there was something else that I didn't catch; does copying Output 1 to Output 2 also translate globally, EQ-wise, or would the same parameters be necessary for sending Output 2 thru as a floor wedge?
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I'm not certain. I will need to test that. I always use separate out blocks. ... which is probably redundant, but it always works.
 
WKSmith said:
I'm not certain. I will need to test that. I always use separate out blocks. ... which is probably redundant, but it always works.
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@WKSmith,

As one of CC's MasterClass students, it was revealed that one can copy Output 1 to either Output 2 or 3 and obtain the same signal path as Output 1. You don't need to add a 2nd Output block; in fact, doing so negates the copy Output 1 to 2 feature.

What I don't know yet is if global EQ can be copied or not yet. Will try to get a sneak peak about that and report back to you...thanks for all you've done thus far...

I've also not discovered a way to fine-tune the Q filters according to your FM9 preset with numeric keyboard, unless there is an iMac command that makes this possible...? (Heinz ketchup anticipation song....)
 
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On my FM9 I added an OUT2 block, then went and enabled OUT2 PEQ.
This has no affect on out 1 EQ.
I also tried toggling from GEQ to PEQ to see if I could get the GEQ to suit my taste a little better.
This is a great feature!
 
bleujazz3 said:
@WKSmith,

I've also not discovered a way to fine-tune the Q filters according to your FM9 preset with numeric keyboard, unless there is an iMac command that makes this possible...? (Heinz ketchup anticipation song....)
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That's a great feature request!
I use the mouse to roll the Q knob. But it doesn't give very fine control. It could be a mouse / edit control issue... perhaps it is possible to use the hardware knob encoder for better resolution.
 
@WKSmith,

According to CC, global EQ can be used venue to venue, where if you're utilizing a pair of particular speakers and have found that a certain EQ curve works best for your needs, an acceptable choice is to use Output 1 L/R for your main speakers (or FOH) and set your Output 1 global EQ for these speakers.

Likewise, if your floor monitor is a separate model speaker, you can dial in Output 2's global EQ and send signal thru Output 2 L or R. You'd need to set Output 2's Global EQ for this speaker separately. What is not necessary is an Output 2 or Output 3 block within your preset/scene screens. Copying Output 1 to Output 2 & 3 copies signal path from Input until Output.
 
WKSmith said:
That's a great feature request!
I use the mouse to roll the Q knob. But it doesn't give very fine control. It could be a mouse / edit control issue... perhaps it is possible to use the hardware knob encoder for better resolution.
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IIRC, one of the moderators had mentioned something to this effect...I'll do a quick search for numeric modifier changes and see what pops up...

EDIT: Couldn't locate what I was trying to find...posted a separate post regards this question in FM9 Discussion.
 
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bleujazz3 said:
What is not necessary is an Output 2 or Output 3 block within your preset/scene screens. Copying Output 1 to Output 2 & 3 copies signal path from Input until Output.
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Interesting! I'll have to make the modification and try it.
That makes things easier!
 
bleujazz3 said:
Yup. It's located within Setup > Audio on FM9-Edit. When you set Output 2 or 3 as a copy of Output 1, it saves you CPU usage that would normally require an extra Output block or 2.
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Coolness! I'm gonna have 2 blocks of CPU freed up. And I learned how to fine tune the Q knob in your other post. It's been a good night.
 
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