AITR

I remember being on the Axe2 Mark 2 days of this debate. The XL guys were all 'screw them move forward'.

Maintaining 2 versions must suck for FAS. I hope we all can be happy, but I don't see why this is the worlds biggest deal. Convolution is almost trivial in your DAW. Maybe I'm missing the big picture?
 
dr bonkers said:
It all depends how reflective the "real room" is where you are shooting IR files.

A "real room" that has some reflective bounce to it where you are going to play that IR mix in a music mix where you are going to create a room for all your instruments to sit in or a solo instrument mix where you add reverb or delay will sound like that IR room in the effect room.

If you are not using IEMs or headphones to monitor, then you will have the IR room in your effects created room in a monitoring room.

If your IR recording room is really dead in terms of reverberations, then you are not going to get anything more than the decay of the cab with a room mic. You are then open to having the real cab sound in a sonically neutral environment so that it will sound like that cab in your effects created room in a monitoring room. It's a huge difference in terms of realism.
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There for there is a range for healthy control room decay times and we spent weeks months, a lot of money to get to there...So we can hear/judge the reverbs, delays we add as we are mixing.

Sorry yes in a reverbarent room, you can capture not only the cab but even the room reflections (even though the cut at the end sounds unnatural like the room parameter which already exist in Cab Block)

and as i said “acoustically treated professional environment” I am not talking about shooting IRs in a iso box or in a dead room!

A room mic is a room mic:) So in my case for this i would go with IR packs, that provide a room mic Full Res IR. If it was only about any IRs length i could use a VST plugin and use full length IRs already and record without the cab block (which i didnfor a while many years ago).
 
touch33 said:
Haven’t cracked my 3MKI open and I’m not a dig-aud hardware engineer, but it seems like a cryin’ shame that the ability to augment NV memory (or other hardware-based capabilities) with a “daughter card” wasn’t baked into the design. I assume there are excellent reasons why not — can’t wait to be schooled.
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K, I'm not a cool kid so "3MKI" and "dig-aud" mean nothing to me, but asking a company to be prescient is expecting a lot. If ANY of us had it we'd own the world at this point, right? I'm definitely not there and you're... where?

Discoveries, innovations, mediocre improvements occur, each in their time. I think this is a pretty good... at least innovation... so we should be thinking "cooooool!" because it's something that NO other company has come close to figuring out.

I could go on, but, really, I think this is an important improvement in the use of IRs, and having watched Cliff's epiphanies, it's going to change digital modeling... again.
 
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unFILTERed said:
Sorry yes in a reverbarent room, you can capture not only the cab but even the room reflections (even though the cut at the end sounds unnatural like the room parameter which already exist in Cab Block)

and as i said “acoustically treated professional environment” I am not talking about shooting IRs in a iso box or in a dead room!

A room mic is a room mic:) So in my case for this i would go with IR packs, that provide a room mic Full Res IR. If it was only about any IRs length i could use a VST plugin and use full length IRs already and record without the cab block (which i didnfor a while many years ago).
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That is a meaningless statement saying a room mic is a room mic in a reverberant room.

What kind of reverberant room? One with 20 ms predelay, 50 ms, 200 ms? What kind of low end smear is acceptable? What frequency is ok for a mid range honk? What standing waves or notches are ok? When it comes to treble diffusion, how much is ok? What about flutter echo being a factor?

I've been in many professional rooms, No two have the same characteristics for these parameters.

And saying it needs to sound good is another meaningless statement since everyone has a differing perception of it.

Add to that the complexity that a live room that makes one cab sound good may make another cab sound like a bad demo to the same listener makes the good sounding room meaningless without any parameters being mentioned.
 
squealie said:
Huh?

What is your dilemma here? An IR represents one signal path. Stereo, is ostensibly two signal paths.
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A true stereo file that has three or four mics panned across the stereo soundstage sounds different than taking that mix, splitting it into two mono sound files and panning it left and right.

You lose all the psychoacoustic location of the mic placement across the sound stage.

True, you could load four single files and pan them in the cab block but that's more cumbersome and doesn't make the mix levels and panning frozen to a user.
 
quote-A true stereo file that has three or four mics panned across the stereo soundstage sounds different than taking that mix, splitting it into two mono sound files and panning it left and right.

I'm calling bullshit on that.

Prove me wrong.
 
dr bonkers said:
My opinion of course about this, if the PA that the room is in is similar to the room where the IR is shot, it sounds good.

If the two rooms do not have the same properties, then it sounds like an audio Moebius strip.
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Creating presets can be a real workout working with various IRs.

The other night I had my FRFR cabinets side by side on the floor, and some presets sounded a tiny bit out of phase, just enough to be annoying. The next day I figured out the CAB block had each cabinet set -10 and 10% apart in the spread and they were just enough to sound like the cabinets were out of phase. I collapsed them to 0% so hopefully they'll be more in phase next time I play live.

Perhaps I could spread the cabs many feet apart and have not noticed the problem, but I can't count on having the luxury of placing them far apart.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
K, I'm not a cool kid so "3MKI" and "dig-aud" mean nothing to me, but asking a company to be prescient is expecting a lot. If ANY of us had it we'd own the world at this point, right? I'm definitely not there and you're... where?

Discoveries, innovations, mediocre improvements occur, each in their time. I think this is a pretty good... at least innovation... so we should be thinking "cooooool!" because it's something that NO other company has come close to figuring out.

I could go on, but, really, I think this is an important improvement in the use of IRs, and having watched Cliff's epiphanies, it's going to change digital modeling... again.
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Sheesh…. I’m not asking anyone to do anything, much less be All Knowing All Seeing and capable of prognostication. The entire point is to ask Cliff to educate me (us) as to whether there are technical reasons why a common form of “future-proofing” doesn’t/shouldn’t apply. Merely seeking data and (perhaps in the wrong thread) having a conversation. You know — like in a forum…

And since you sort-of asked: “3MKI” as in “AxeFX III Mark I” and “dig-aud” as in “digital audio”. Hope this helps so we can all be Cool Kids together. K?
 
dr bonkers said:
That is a meaningless statement saying a room mic is a room mic in a reverberant room.

What kind of reverberant room? One with 20 ms predelay, 50 ms, 200 ms? What kind of low end smear is acceptable? What frequency is ok for a mid range honk? What standing waves or notches are ok? When it comes to treble diffusion, how much is ok? What about flutter echo being a factor?

I've been in many professional rooms, No two have the same characteristics for these parameters.

And saying it needs to sound good is another meaningless statement since everyone has a differing perception of it.

Add to that the complexity that a live room that makes one cab sound good may make another cab sound like a bad demo to the same listener makes the good sounding room meaningless without any parameters being mentioned.
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Who said a room mic is a room mic in a reverberant room!!! :) Can we please responde to what we actually write/ask? :)

And yes plz, if it sounds bad (subjective but if the IR Pack Builder things their room sounds bad or their cab sounds bad in that room) than i would wish/hope they don’t sell/include those room mic IRs.
 
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touch33 said:
Sheesh…. I’m not asking anyone to do anything, much less be All Knowing All Seeing and capable of prognostication. The entire point is to ask Cliff to educate me (us) as to whether there are technical reasons why a common form of “future-proofing” doesn’t/shouldn’t apply. Merely seeking data and (perhaps in the wrong thread) having a conversation. You know — like in a forum…
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It really, REALLY, sounds like you're asking FAS to defend their design decisions to you.
 
FractalAudio said:
Name a competing product with an expansion slot.
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I think he's referring to what Metric Halo does with their audio interface's update (2D, 3D)
Not amp modelling but close enough to be considered inspirational :)
They are the only ones that I'm aware of that offer that level of support for their updates, and that's what makes them better than the competition.
 
Greg Ferguson said:
It really, REALLY, sounds like you're asking FAS to defend their design decisions to you.
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I hear your judgement, but nope — just trying to learn something, and my thought was that Cliff might chime in and educate a little if he feels it’s appropriate.
 
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dr bonkers said:
Still hoping for support for true stereo IR files rather than panning two mono files left and right and calling it stereo.
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Have you rigged up a true stereo IR up in a DAW signal path with the Axe or other modeler? If so was a dual mono comparison of the same IR possible?
 
This sounds fun.

Having the ability to capture and use reverb IR's from vintage hardware reverb processors (e.g a gated verb from an old SPX90 or DEP-5) seems like a potential application too. If so I'll happily sample and share as many of my old rack units as possible.
 
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