Double tracking-effect on live guitar?

I'm tired of chasing my tail with every FW update. I got things pretty close to what I want at 13.07. Yes, that far back...

Can FracTool take a preset and change it to a past FW?
 
Last edited:
Ok, looking at the preset via FracTool, a couple of questions:

1) The Filter Blocks: why two in series? I see that they are both 4500 Hz at 8 db. Why not just have one filter block with the db's doubled?

2) The Pitch block: (it could be the FracTool info layout, but I don't clearly see what you are doing here) No delay, no detune, no feedback, glide is 10 ms, level 1 is 100%, level 2 is 0%, MDelay is 100%, Pitch Mode is up one octave with 31 repeats, Shift 1 & 2 are 24, Time 2 is 14.80 ms, Tracking is 6.17, TrackMode is Poly, Type is Detune, XFade is 50%.

What pitch block 'type' are you working off of? Detune/micropitch? Are you using any random controllers on any anything listed?

Confused...
 
claxor said:
1) The Filter Blocks: why two in series? I see that they are both 4500 Hz at 8 db. Why not just have one filter block with the db's doubled?
Click to expand...
FracTool hasn't extracted the blocks correctly, maybe? Or they don't translate to your old firmware version?

They're both set to modulate different frequency bands: the first one is centered around 4.5 kHz, the second around 800 Hz. But both of them have modifiers attached to their Gain, Frequency and Q settings so they're changing as you play. Some of the change is random (Frequency changes randomly), some of the change is dynamic (Gain and Q are envelope-controlled).

2) The Pitch block: (it could be the FracTool info layout, but I don't clearly see what you are doing here) No delay, no detune, no feedback, glide is 10 ms, level 1 is 100%, level 2 is 0%, MDelay is 100%, Pitch Mode is up one octave with 31 repeats, Shift 1 & 2 are 24, Time 2 is 14.80 ms, Tracking is 6.17, TrackMode is Poly, Type is Detune, XFade is 50%.
Click to expand...
It didn't extract properly. It's a Detune block with the detune amounts fluctuating randomly.

Screen Shot 2016-10-09 at 1.22.16 PM.png

Are you using any random controllers on any anything listed?
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
Ok, I found the controller settings in the pdf of the preset via FracTool. Unfortunately, it doesn't say which parameters have which controller/LFO/Envelope attached to them.

Can you tell me which controller is attached to which parameter?

Filter (4.5KHz):
Gain:
Frequency:
Q:

Filter (800 Hz):
Gain:
Frequency:
Q:

Pitch Detune:
Voice 1 Detune:
**(Voice 2 has level 2 at 0% with no controller attached)
 
claxor said:
Ok, I found the controller settings in the pdf of the preset via FracTool. Unfortunately, it doesn't say which parameters have which controller/LFO/Envelope attached to them.

Can you tell me which controller is attached to which parameter?

Filter (4.5KHz):
Gain:
Frequency:
Q:

Filter (800 Hz):
Gain:
Frequency:
Q:

Pitch Detune:
Voice 1 Detune:
**(Voice 2 has level 2 at 0% with no controller attached)
Click to expand...
Here's the CSV of the preset. There's quite a bit going on with modifiers, but they're all laid out in the CSV.
 

Attachments

Any chance for me to convert this preset to the Ax8? (Jupp, I know, that I only have one amp block, but I'm going to find a workaround....)
 
funkstation777 said:
Any chance for me to convert this preset to the Ax8? (Jupp, I know, that I only have one amp block, but I'm going to find a workaround....)
Click to expand...
I think it's going to be hard to make it work without 2 AMP blocks. You can try running the filters and pitch stuff between the AMP and CAB block, two parallel paths, but I don't think it'll work as well.
 
Well, I gave it a shot. To my ears, it still sounds like that modern Van Halen sound of heavy micropitch/detune usage via the ol' Eventide. That's fine if you like that tone, but I'm not a fan in a metal context.

For heavier music, the TC pedal sounds better and more natural in its emulation of double tracking.
 
claxor said:
Well, I gave it a shot. To my ears, it still sounds like that modern Van Halen sound of heavy micropitch/detune usage via the ol' Eventide. That's fine if you like that tone, but I'm not a fan in a metal context.

For heavier music, the TC pedal sounds better and more natural in its emulation of double tracking.
Click to expand...
Did you buy a TC pedal? I'd love to hear a clip of a clean dry track and a clean effected track to hear what's going on in the pedal.
 
iaresee said:
Did you buy a TC pedal? I'd love to hear a clip of a clean dry track and a clean effected track to hear what's going on in the pedal.
Click to expand...

Bought the pedal. Tried the pedal 3 times so far, and I'm forming a favorable opinion. I don't have the equipment to record clips.

Listen to the video clip I posted. He covers a clean tone in stereo with no pedal, and then with the pedal 'on' with different settings. Honestly, I tried clean with my pedal, and while not sounding bad, I didn't think it sounded necessary or as good as the classic enhancer block for cleans.

Also, with clean tones and the Mimiq, it doesn't sound like typical detune/micropitch effects. Something else is going on with the pedal.
 
Last edited:
claxor said:
Bought the pedal. Tried the pedal 3 times so far, and I'm forming a favorable opinion. I don't have the equipment to record clips.

Listen to the video clip I posted. He covers a clean tone in stereo with no pedal, and then with the pedal 'on' with different settings. Honestly, I tried clean with my pedal, and while not sounding bad, I didn't think it sounded necessary or as good as the classic enhancer block for cleans.

Also, with clean tones and the Mimiq, it doesn't sound like typical detune/micropitch effects. Something else is going on with the pedal.
Click to expand...

I'm curious how you routed the MIMIQ and what i/o settings you used on the axe. I just got the pedal as well. I didn't immediately get the sound I was hoping for. What I discovered is running the pedal into the front of the axe is basically big mono...since the double track effect is now coming out of both stereo speakers or FOH etc. I had to run XLR-1/4 from OUTPUT 1 of axe into the mono (L) and Stereo (R) of the MIMIQ, then out of the MIMIQ to my speakers. Definitely not very ergonomical but It did the trick. It gave me that double tracked effect. Basically I treated my Speakers as "separate amplifiers, or rigs" which is really the only way I see this pedal working effectively.

I even tried using the REAR input of axe-fx and then setting up two parallel chains (two amps, two cabs etc.) Setting chain 1 to receive LEFT input only and Chain two to receive RIGHT input only...still didn't work, not sure why. Still got that undesired BIG mono sound...Maybe its the output i need to mess with now.

In all honesty, the effect is def. cool but is only a small step above what the enhancer block already sounds like...maybe we could convince Cliff into adding a "tightness" parameter in the enhancer block.
 
Ok, figured it out. Had to use the FX loop on axe-fx for separate input. Sounds fantastic...but now I have another problem...cant really use my FX Loop in axe-fx for my Matrix/Orange Rig simultaneously.
 
actionjackson12 said:
Ok, figured it out. Had to use the FX loop on axe-fx for separate input. Sounds fantastic...but now I have another problem...cant really use my FX Loop in axe-fx for my Matrix/Orange Rig simultaneously.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it does sound good, and I think it is novel. It's not like any other chorus/detune/ADT effect for guitar I've heard before. It really is closer to the double-tracked sound (in stereo).

This is how I used it: in the FX loop of the Axe; using a preset with two amps and cabs, placing the FX loop block after them and before all other blocks. It probably can also be at the end of the chain, it just needs to be (I think) after the two amps and cabs. It may work after one amp and cab, if you find a way to turn a mono signal to stereo before entering the FX loop. (not sure how to do that in the Axe)

Yeah, using the Mimiq, I'm probably going to need a rack switcher down the road as well.
 
When I think of double/triple tracking I think of the sounds created by guys that actually did it - Iommi, Vai, Randy, etc. The TC pedal sounds like a processed stereo effect and nothing like multiple guitar parts. I had the Keeley pedal and it produced the same result. The closest I ever got to a convincing double track tone was with a VG-99 running two completely separate guitar and amp chains and have them slightly delayed and barely detuned. You have to use less gain than you might normally use - otherwise the sound turns to background mush. I still have my VG-99, it'd be interesting to use it just for a second guitar tone source and run it into the Axe-FX for dual amp and other processing.
 
hippietim said:
When I think of double/triple tracking I think of the sounds created by guys that actually did it - Iommi, Vai, Randy, etc. The TC pedal sounds like a processed stereo effect and nothing like multiple guitar parts. I had the Keeley pedal and it produced the same result. The closest I ever got to a convincing double track tone was with a VG-99 running two completely separate guitar and amp chains and have them slightly delayed and barely detuned. You have to use less gain than you might normally use - otherwise the sound turns to background mush. I still have my VG-99, it'd be interesting to use it just for a second guitar tone source and run it into the Axe-FX for dual amp and other processing.
Click to expand...
I liked the sound in the first mode with only 1 extra guitar signal using my AX8 and the TC electronics MIMIQ pedal. I tried with 2 and 3 and did not like the sound. To me when using with only 1 extra guitar signal it was quite realistic. There were a few things that I did in conjunction. First was to create a stereo cab with the same cabinet on both sides. I then placed the fx loop block just before the cab block. I also set output 1 and output 2 in stereo mode.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom