X32 mixer and in ears

[boltrecords]

yes, that's us.. and the short answer to your question? NO!
The FOH EQ is what goes to the IEM output busses.

But.. each buss has same capabilities as any channel - EQ, Gate, Compression and Effects - so one has some level of additional control over the mix buss settings. But - remember it will be at the buss level, not change the individual channel.

What I don't understand is the need for very different EQ on IEM vs FOH.

Need more info on that .. but.. if that is the case, then I believe you have something awry somewhere.
I have NO EQ on my IEM mix busses and my mix is pretty darn good (EW300 IEM/1964 Ears Quads) with no change from FOH channel settings!

It might be your buds?? I'm guessing you all have singe drivers? Or maybe something else in your setup driving the additional EQ needs. More details on IEM hardware, buds and maybe some more on what you are doing for FOH EQ (PA config?)?
Wired or wireless?

But.. @zionplayers comment above about "BTW - FWIW If you don't need but 16 or so channels, I have read about others assigning xlr Input 1 to channel 1 AND to channel 17 at the same time, using Channel 1-16 for FOH and Channel 17-32 for ears or a recording mix."
is valid.
You CAN map 17-32 to the same inputs as 1-16 and NOT route them to main outs like 1-16.
You CAN then EQ 17-32 for your IEM mix independent of FOH channel settings and route 17-32 to your IEM busses!!

Mute main outs (before after shots):

But my initial question still stands. Why do you need very different EQ on IEM vs FOH ??

First off, I don't know if I need very different eq for IEM vs FOH. I don't run front of house and never have. We haven't even gotten to the point of using this to run FOH either. I was just concerned that by changing the EQ in my IEM on each channel to help clean up the mix (just as you would for a studio recording) that it would not work well for the FOH....Maybe it would be fine. But if the EQ doesn't work well for FOH but my IEM mix sounds great, then as soon as the EQ starts getting tweaked for FOH its going to then screw up our IEM MIX.

If that's the case I may have to run some of the instruments into separate channels I guess like zion said

Im using JH16's 8 drivers. Not single drivers so that cant be the issue.

 

[Severed]

Is anyone out there using the x32 for both in ears and running FoH? That was the initial goal for my band but I'm finding that we need to use the channel Eq a lot to dial in the in ears. But I'm worried that the changes in EQ for each channel will negatively effect the FoH when we use the board for our main outs to the PA.

Is there a way to assign eq and comp to the channels and not have it effect the main outs? Just so we can use it for in ears mixes?


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It all depends on where you assign the tap.
Chapter 5.6 in the X32 Manual

Setting up a live stage monitor mix using conventional monitors:
1. Press the ROUTE button and page right to the Analog Out page.
2. Adjust the first encoder to select a rear panel analog output (e.g. Output 1), then adjust the fourth encoder to select a mix bus (e.g. Mix Bus 1). When the source and destination have been selected, press the 4th encoder to complete the assignment.
3. Adjust the 5th encoder to set up the monitor send as pre-fader, or pre/post EQ. This will prevent the monitor mix from changing when the front-of-house mix is adjusted.
4. Connect a cable from rear panel analog Out 1 to the input of:
a) A powered stage monitor
b) An external amplifier feeding a passive stage monitor
c) A transmitter for a set of wireless in-ear monitors
5. On the bank of output faders on the right hand side of the console, select the monitor bus (1-8, 9-16) (in this case Bus 1) and adjust the fader to 0 dB initially. You can change the overall output level on this bus anytime later, of course.
6. To adjust the mix sent to the monitor, select an input channel, then adjust its “Bus Master 1” fader. Repeat for the other input channels to complete the monitor mix.

The monitor mix can also be adjusted using the “Sends on Faders” function:
1. On the bank of output faders on the right hand side of the console, select the monitor bus (1-8, 9-16) that feeds the talent’s stage monitor (in this case Bus 1).
2. Press the “Sends on Faders” button. You will see the button illuminate.
3. Select an input channel layer (Ch 1-8, 9-16, 17-24, 25-32, or Aux/USB).
4. Adjust the 32 channels of input faders on the left side of the console. They now act as “virtual aux send knobs” for the Mix Bus 1 feeding the stage monitor, allowing you to quickly adjust the overall monitor mix using the faders.

What I do is set it up as described in the first 3 points, then I use "Sends on Fader" to assign channels and levels to the mix bus. After I get that all done, I select the mix bus and EQ it as needed.

 

[s0c9]

Steve, I believe you can set the buses to pre-EQ I believe.

Alexander, yes you can do that, but that doesn't give you any channel EQ at all in your IEM mix.. raw.. ugh! The only control is the buss level EQ.

What I do is set it up as described in the first 3 points, then I use "Sends on Fader" to assign channels and levels to the mix bus. After I get that all done, I select the mix bus and EQ it as needed.

Right, but as I said before, that only gives you buss-level EQ control.
Yes, it does prevent changes to FOH EQ impacting what's in the IEM mix, but uggghhh!!!
Have you ever listened to a "raw" un-EQ'd full-band mix on your IEM's with only a single 31-band EQ being applied across EVERY channel you are being fed??

It's ugly.. I'd much rather hear the FOH mix and only have to to basic balance adjustments across channels.
YMMV

 

[s0c9]

First off, I don't know if I need very different eq for IEM vs FOH. I don't run front of house and never have. We haven't even gotten to the point of using this to run FOH either. I was just concerned that by changing the EQ in my IEM on each channel to help clean up the mix (just as you would for a studio recording) that it would not work well for the FOH....Maybe it would be fine. But if the EQ doesn't work well for FOH but my IEM mix sounds great, then as soon as the EQ starts getting tweaked for FOH its going to then screw up our IEM MIX.

If that's the case I may have to run some of the instruments into separate channels I guess like zion said

Im using JH16's 8 drivers. Not single drivers so that cant be the issue.

Yes, you are correct - if you FIRST set up your IEM mix with channel EQ's then any change by FOH will affect that mix.

That said.. unless you are touring level and have a whole separate system, then (like standard wedges) your IEM mix is a "monitor" mix... meaning you hear what you need to hear (from FOH) to monitor what the band is doing. If you need to "clean up the mix" in your ears, then IMHO you have a FOH issue as the mix shouldn't need to be drastically different.

Maybe it's because you're not actually doing it yet, but I have 100+ gigs monitoring the FOH mix via IEM and it's very clean. If I was trying to listen to a CD (vs monitoring the band mix) then, yeah... I could see one wanting separate EQ per FOH channel, but I really haven't found the need.. and I have run FOH for many years also.

I adjust channel levels (overall balance.. as in more bass, less guitar, more effects, etc.) myself - via X32Q - but that's it. I feed the FOH channel mixes to my IEM mix buss.

Again, YMMV on all of this.
Try it first?

 

[boltrecords]

Yes, you are correct - if you FIRST set up your IEM mix with channel EQ's then any change by FOH will affect that mix.

That said.. unless you are touring level and have a whole separate system, then (like standard wedges) your IEM mix is a "monitor" mix... meaning you hear what you need to hear (from FOH) to monitor what the band is doing. If you need to "clean up the mix" in your ears, then IMHO you have a FOH issue as the mix shouldn't need to be drastically different.

Maybe it's because you're not actually doing it yet, but I have 100+ gigs monitoring the FOH mix via IEM and it's very clean. If I was trying to listen to a CD (vs monitoring the band mix) then, yeah... I could see one wanting separate EQ per FOH channel, but I really haven't found the need.. and I have run FOH for many years also.

I adjust channel levels (overall balance.. as in more bass, less guitar, more effects, etc.) myself - via X32Q - but that's it. I feed the FOH channel mixes to my IEM mix buss.

Again, YMMV on all of this.
Try it first?

So I think were on the same page. I wasn't saying that the mix IS drastically different, I just didn't want to dial in the in ear mix and then find out that it IS INFACT Drasticaly different and then have to screwup my whole in ear mix. So it should be good then. May change slightly when we start running front of house but overall the FOH should work relatively well with our In ear mixes. Also, I may have to tweak my Axefx presets slightly as well. Maybe im using too much low end or not enough mids which is making me have to utilize the X32 EQ too much.

All I want to have to do is tweak the levels via X32Q as well.

 

[s0c9]

So I think were on the same page. I wasn't saying that the mix IS drastically different, I just didn't want to dial in the in ear mix and then find out that it IS INFACT Drasticaly different and then have to screwup my whole in ear mix. So it should be good then. May change slightly when we start running front of house but overall the FOH should work relatively well with our In ear mixes. Also, I may have to tweak my Axefx presets slightly as well. Maybe im using too much low end or not enough mids which is making me have to utilize the X32 EQ too much.

All I want to have to do is tweak the levels via X32Q as well.

yep, sounds like we are on same page.
However, I would like to point out that the FOH mix should take priority and be set BEFORE the IEM mix. After all, FOH IS what your audience is going to hear, so it MUST be a priority over the IEM's. Once that is set, it will [hopefully] be good enough to work as the IEM mix - unchanged!

If not, you have some buss EQ that you can use to tweak.. or.. if required changes are drastic, then use the route to 17-32 channel approach.

PS: I seriously doubt your IEM mix needs will warrant any change.

 

[boltrecords]

The only drastic eq changes I've been making is just sweeping through and cutting some of the muddy woofy low end that I hear. To help clean things up a bit. Same as I would do on a recording mix.
I've never ran foh so I don't know if this is the same process for that or not.


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[Severed]

Right, but as I said before, that only gives you buss-level EQ control.
Yes, it does prevent changes to FOH EQ impacting what's in the IEM mix, but uggghhh!!!
Have you ever listened to a "raw" un-EQ'd full-band mix on your IEM's with only a single 31-band EQ being applied across EVERY channel you are being fed??

It's ugly.. I'd much rather hear the FOH mix and only have to to basic balance adjustments across channels.
YMMV

There are multiple tap points, I never suggested to tap directly off the input.

IN/LC
IN/LC +M
PreEQ
PreEQ +M
PostEQ
PostEQ+M
PreFdr
PreFdr +M
PostFdr

Here is another approach.

This is a video of FW1.15 I think, but it still works the same.

If you haven't already, I'd recommend watching all of his videos.



And here's another great explaination



But in the end, if you want the best control and you are not using all the channels, just mirror your inputs.

 

[yek]

Nice and helpful videos. Learned a few things.

Although when I listened to the "live mix" video, I thought: even the best gear and mix isn't going to fix that.

P.S. My "home studio area" gets a little crowded.

 

[dpeterson]

this was probably mentioned, didn't have time to read the last 3 pages

You can also do this... say you are using 16 channels, 1-16 mirror those inputs to 17-32, 17-32 becomes your Monitor mix faders (all eq, comp, gates), 1-16 would be assigned to go to FOH (different eq, gates, comps, levels). I'm getting ready to do this to our x32 because we are switching from just using it for monitors to using it for FOH and monitors as we are buying a P.A.

 

[boltrecords]

this was probably mentioned, didn't have time to read the last 3 pages

You can also do this... say you are using 16 channels, 1-16 mirror those inputs to 17-32, 17-32 becomes your Monitor mix faders (all eq, comp, gates), 1-16 would be assigned to go to FOH (different eq, gates, comps, levels). I'm getting ready to do this to our x32 because we are switching from just using it for monitors to using it for FOH and monitors as we are buying a P.A.

To mirror the inputs to 17-32 does this require physically having those extra 16 inputs? Do I need the S16 snake?


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[Severed]

To mirror the inputs to 17-32 does this require physically having those extra 16 inputs? Do I need the S16 snake?


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nope.

Simply goto the routing "home" page and change the inputs 17-24 to local 1-8 and inputs 25-32 to local 9-16.

as previously mentioned though, you'll want to set 17 - 32 to not output to the main LR mix bus, which you will have to manually deselect it for each channel.

 

[boltrecords]

Nice. Thanks


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[ssmorga78]

Now looking at the iPad and Mac (beta) software for the X18.

I wouldn't mind using a wired connection to my laptop.
I wonder if it's possible to run both: wireless iPad and wired MacBook.

Yek, you definitely want an external router to run a WiFi connection with ton the XR18. My band has had one for several months and after the first signal drop at rehearsal.....we got a top end router tonuse. I would imagine that you can hardware a laptop into the router and connect to the XR18 that way. I would definitely suggest having both connection options. Its a fail safe way to make sure there are no issues during a show. Also, there is some lag between iPad controls and the unit. You will also run into the good old fader reset with the iPad as well.....(you change the faded on the iPad, let it go and it returns back where it was before). Its a great concept but needs some software updates.......which I'm hoping come out soon with an updated firmware.

 

[boltrecords]

So the mirroring trick worked very well. I have 1-16 mirrored to 17-32.

What kind of effects does everyone runs in their ear mix? Any reverb or delay on vocals or drums? I was thinking of trying a room verb on the drum channels. Any tricks or recommendations?

Also, how can I clear up my vocal channels? They still sound a little muddy to me. I have low cuts set. And I used a vocal preset in the x32. Still seems a bit muddy though


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[s0c9]

So the mirroring trick worked very well. I have 1-16 mirrored to 17-32.

What kind of effects does everyone runs in their ear mix? Any reverb or delay on vocals or drums? I was thinking of trying a room verb on the drum channels. Any tricks or recommendations?

Also, how can I clear up my vocal channels? They still sound a little muddy to me. I have low cuts set. And I used a vocal preset in the x32. Still seems a bit muddy though


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Using the X32Q app on iPad, I scroll right until I find the effect level sends and adjust to taste.. IOW - same effects that go to FOH. That's because I don't want my IEM mix too different from what's going to FOH.

You could always adjust the EQ on your IEM mix bus... but again, that masks what's headed to FOH. If you are mirroring and using CH 1/17 for lead vox, adjust the CH EQ on 17.. and leave the FOH feed (CH 1) alone... of course that EQ affects anyone monitoring Ch 17, but not FOH.

To me.. if the vocals in your IEM mix are muddy, that indicates they are also muddy out front, which is why I'm not a big fan of the mirror approach. It's the long-time sound guy in me I guess!

 

[dpeterson]

What kind of mics' are you using for vocals? I'm using a beta87a which is super sensitive, and clear. Might be a place to look.

 

[boltrecords]

Using the X32Q app on iPad, I scroll right until I find the effect level sends and adjust to taste.. IOW - same effects that go to FOH. That's because I don't want my IEM mix too different from what's going to FOH.

You could always adjust the EQ on your IEM mix bus... but again, that masks what's headed to FOH. If you are mirroring and using CH 1/17 for lead vox, adjust the CH EQ on 17.. and leave the FOH feed (CH 1) alone... of course that EQ affects anyone monitoring Ch 17, but not FOH.

To me.. if the vocals in your IEM mix are muddy, that indicates they are also muddy out front, which is why I'm not a big fan of the mirror approach. It's the long-time sound guy in me I guess!

Right now I have the mirroring set up to 17-32, However, 1-16 is not running to front of house. That is eventually the plan to use 1-16 FOH but we have yet to have our X32 run to the FOH. So as of now the muddiness is just in my ears. Im hoping the sound guy running our FOH at the gigs has been tweaking the vocals. But I have noticed that the mic I use is slightly muddy to begin with. Sennheiser Ew100 G3. Im debating on going back to a wired mic for quality purposes.

s0c9..you stated that you don't like the mirroring approach because then the FOH gets the same signal. From what I was testing last night, The 17-32 was completely independent from 1-16 as far as the channel strip (EQ, COMP etc). So that wouldn't really be the case. The 1-16 FOH could be EQ'd correctly and my 17-32 In ear mix could be muddy at the same time if im not setting it up correctly.

As far as the effects go, I understand how to add he effects in the Q app, but as of now I have to physically set up what effects I want to put into the FX slots. I was thinking (PLate, ROOM, Delay and SLAP). But my last post was looking for suggestions as to what you all typically will use for both (FOH and Inears).

 

[s0c9]

s0c9..you stated that you don't like the mirroring approach because then the FOH gets the same signal. From what I was testing last night, The 17-32 was completely independent from 1-16 as far as the channel strip (EQ, COMP etc). So that wouldn't really be the case. The 1-16 FOH could be EQ'd correctly and my 17-32 In ear mix could be muddy at the same time if im not setting it up correctly.

No, what I thought I said was that adjusting EQ on the mirrored channels masks what is heading to FOH on the original channel. At least that's what I meant.

To clarify further: I WANT to hear the channels going to FOH in my IEM's, NOT a separate mix from mirrored channels. By doing so, I have some idea of what the audience hears. If 1-16 goes to FOH, but my IEM mix is sourced from the mirrored 17-32 channels, then I have no clue what is going to FOH. Ch 17-32 could have different EQ, gate, comp, effects, etc. from 1-16 and I'd not know.

Right now, I hear 1-16 in my ears. It's the FOH mix, with the FOH EQ, comp, gate and effect settings. My mixbuss settings are flat.. no EQ, no comp, etc.

YMMV - and you may not want FOH at all.

 

[boltrecords]

No, what I thought I said was that adjusting EQ on the mirrored channels masks what is heading to FOH on the original channel. At least that's what I meant.

To clarify further: I WANT to hear the channels going to FOH in my IEM's, NOT a separate mix from mirrored channels. By doing so, I have some idea of what the audience hears. If 1-16 goes to FOH, but my IEM mix is sourced from the mirrored 17-32 channels, then I have no clue what is going to FOH. Ch 17-32 could have different EQ, gate, comp, effects, etc. from 1-16 and I'd not know.

Right now, I hear 1-16 in my ears. It's the FOH mix, with the FOH EQ, comp, gate and effect settings. My mixbuss settings are flat.. no EQ, no comp, etc.

YMMV - and you may not want FOH at all.

Got it. You basically want to have control over your FOH mix and be able to monitor it in your ears to make sure its how you want it to be.

Our sound tech that will eventually be running our FOH knows more than I about sound so in the end ill try his ears out front than mine in the headphones. Therefore id rather just have my own control over the IEM mix. I guess when hes running 1-16 I can always try out 1-16 in the Q app and see if I like it any better than what im doing on 17-32