[WISH] Solve the Popping at Whammy (pitch block) bypass

Roby Rocks

Roby Rocks

Inspired
Vendor
Popping Sound with auto-engage.


Specs:
Fractal FM9 Turbo
fw: 4.01
Exp Pedal: Fractal EV-1
EV-1 go into "Pedal 1" and it is is correctly calibrated.

Config:
Pitch Block.
Type: Whammy
Mode: Oct 1 Up
Control: assigned to modifier "Pedal 1"
Auto Engage: ON (Med Pos)

Signal Path:
IN1 > PITCH > AMP > CAB > OUT1

Problem:
When Pitch turn-on and when turn-off (it is more evident) there is a "pop".

I expected
that engage and bypass pitch block doesn't cause "popping" sound.
I hope in a fix.
Thanks
 
You're changing the latency of that block when you turn it on and off, which will cause artifacts. Auto-engage doesn't make sense in cases like that. If you want to avoid that, you'll have to cross fade it instead of turning it on and off.
 
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GlennO said:
You're changing the latency of that block when you turn it on and off, which will cause artifacts. Auto-engage doesn't make sense in cases like that. If you want to avoid that, you'll have to cross fade it instead of turning it on and off.
Click to expand...
Yes. For this issue I think that Fractal may try to insert a soft “volume swell” when turn it on/off. Like the same way for the wha (firmware 4.01)
 
Roby Rocks said:
Yes. For this issue I think that Fractal may try to insert a soft “volume swell” when turn it on/off. Like the same way for the wha (firmware 4.01)
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that would work think it would work. With a wah, a volume swell mixes the wah soumd with the "un-wah" sound, which is a pleasant blend. With the whammy, you'd be mixing your pitch-shifted sound with your unshifted sound. That would be inharmonic and basically yucky.
 
Rex said:
I'm not sure that would work think it would work. With a wah, a volume swell mixes the wah soumd with the "un-wah" sound, which is a pleasant blend. With the whammy, you'd be mixing your pitch-shifted sound with your unshifted sound. That would be inharmonic and basically yucky.
Click to expand...
mmm... yes is true.... ...but I think (maybe I'm wrong): When the pedal il full heel down... with the auto-engage the pitch block is bypassed in about 400-500ms... in this rage of time Fractal may try to insert an volume sweel... I'm wrong? theoretically with the pedal full heel down there is no (pitch) different with the bypassed block
 
Roby Rocks said:
mmm... yes is true.... ...but I think (maybe I'm wrong): When the pedal il full heel down... with the auto-engage the pitch block is bypassed in about 400-500ms... in this rage of time Fractal may try to insert an volume sweel... I'm wrong? theoretically with the pedal full heel down there is no (pitch) different with the bypassed block
Click to expand...
Depending on how you have Autoengage set up, bypass may occur instantly, or in a few hundred milliseconds, or in a longer time. But engage is always instant.
 
Last edited:
Rex said:
Depending on how you have Autoengage set up, bypass may occur instantly, or if in a few hundred milliseconds, or in a longer time. But engage is always instant.
Click to expand...
Yes... Change Med Pos to Fast Pos. That will make the Bypass operation faster.
 
Sixstring said:
How did that not solve your issue? Running the effect in this configuration eliminates having to turn the effect off and on thus eliminating the artifact.
Click to expand...
Sorry....let me explain better:
Yes that trick make a smooth bypass of the whammy effect. It works.
What I mean is that’s a good trick, very good trick, is useful to overcome the pitch block problem.
would be much simpler if Fractal tried to insert a soft “volume swell” when turn it on/off.
 
As I mentioned above, that cross fade technique is the only possible way to solve the latency change problem that causes a pop, unless you want to live with the artifacts that come with using the whammy with a shift of zero. I suppose this bug could be rephrased as a convenience wish that the whammy automatically did the cross fade so you don't have to. There might be situations where that's not desirable though, so it's not obvious whether or not that would be a good feature.
 
The newest pitch detection algorithms in the FM9 and Axe-Fx III are so fast that I am inclined to just leaving the Whammy engaged in presets with the Whammy models.

This faster/lower latency is so fast that it actually causes phase issues when trying to 'cross fade'. The older algorithms had enough latency to avoid any comb filtering during the cross fade. But not the case anymore. Even when cross fading with the steepest slope at the fastest possible speed, the comb filtering during this quick fade is audible.

It would be great if Cliff could figure out some way to get those models to fade in and out without any audible artifacts, and without any controller trickery. What is happening in the actual Whammy pedals?
 
GlennO said:
As I mentioned above, that cross fade technique is the only possible way to solve the latency change problem that causes a pop, unless you want to live with the artifacts that come with using the whammy with a shift of zero. I suppose this bug could be rephrased as a convenience wish that the whammy automatically did the cross fade so you don't have to. There might be situations where that's not desirable though, so it's not obvious whether or not that would be a good feature.
Click to expand...
I agree!
So I have edited the title in "[WISH] Solve the popping..."
Maybe Fractal can insert a Button for "smooth engage" or similar.
Thanks
 
Moke said:
What is happening in the actual Whammy pedals?
Click to expand...
I don't recall the Whammy IV sounding any better than the example here, so probably nothing too interesting--a quick fade or immediate switching between signals. Since the bypass is done with a switch (or MIDI automation) it's easier to work around this by switching where a little blip won't be much of an issue, like during a little slide or muted string noise before a new chord/note.
 
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