Why do Tone Matches seem so thin?

jasonwb007

jasonwb007

Inspired
The title is the question... every time I download a patch with TM in it, it sounds really thin - almost like an AM radio, compared to most other patches. I don't think it's just me. So, unfortunately, I've not yet found a TM patch that seemed good to use. Got close with Spirit of Radio, though, but even with that one, I thought I could do better starting from the Brit800.

Thoughts?

Jason
 
I've had the same experience when using other's tone patches, and it's really dependent on the guitar used. If you have the exact same guitar, using the same pickup selection, then it should be close. In most cases, I've simply found the stems or guitar-only part of the tune to re-tone match with my guitar. Even then, it still sounds a tiny bit "thinner" than a cab... maybe that's because some of the sounds were built using a mix of direct/cab or direct only.
 
When you produce an album everything has to have its own space, you cant have a guitar taking up room from 40hz to 16khz, if you had a master of puppets "guitar edition" with only rhythm guitar playing on the record im sure it would sound fat and chunky but when you hear the isolated guitar track from the actual album it sounds like a dog whistle. Tone matching album guitar sounds is a waste of time unless you are using it to put back in a track that sounds fairly similar. IMO
 
+1 :)


Rotaholic said:
When you produce an album everything has to have its own space, you cant have a guitar taking up room from 40hz to 16khz, if you had a master of puppets "guitar edition" with only rhythm guitar playing on the record im sure it would sound fat and chunky but when you hear the isolated guitar track from the actual album it sounds like a dog whistle. Tone matching album guitar sounds is a waste of time unless you are using it to put back in a track that sounds fairly similar. IMO
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Have to admit I never got Tone Matching either. TM presets never sound right to me and always sound worse than 'normal' cab plus amp presets and therefor I stopped using it all together.
 
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I think I see more value for Tone Matching when you want to get your favourite amp on the Axe-Fx (obviously if it isn't already on there). So I would use it for an amp 'profiling' application rather than trying to match a sound that has already been fully produced and mixed in on a music track.

Cliff has shown many times how accurate this feature is, so it is definitely worth matching the source of the sound rather than the finished studio version.
 
chucma said:
I think I see more value for Tone Matching when you want to get your favourite amp on the Axe-Fx (obviously if it isn't already on there). So I would use it for an amp 'profiling' application rather than trying to match a sound that has already been fully produced and mixed in on a music track.

Cliff has shown many times how accurate this feature is, so it is definitely worth matching the source of the sound rather than the finished studio version.
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Absoluty !
 
I don't use nor have I tried TM on electric guitar sounds because I can easily dial them in how I want them.
Rotaholic is right about TM of guitar stems from an album, especially those with a lot of stuff going on. I think one could successfully TM a guitar stem and get a good sound from say a lead guitar tone from a Joe Bonamassa album or anywhere that the guitar tone is the very dominate part in that sonic landscape.

TM presets are a fantastic way to get perfect acoustic guitar tones from a piezo equipped electric guitar.
I can now leave my expensive acoustics at home and use my piezo equipped start - and now have an "acoustic" with a term and the playability of a great strat, and I can switch from acoustic to electric and back on the fly.
I use it a lot and it has opened up a lot of possibilities for me.

I scenarios where it's important to use an acoustic on stage, usually for aesthetic reasons, I can bring my main and a spare and have Tone Matches made from my other acoustics or others acoustics and have a big pallet of acoustic tones come from one instrument.

I don't have any video clips of myself using acoustic TMs, but go to youtube and check out Pink's live version of Led Zeps "Baby I'm gonna leave you" in Luxenburg - Justin Derrico uses a Fishman Powerbridge on his LP in that clip switching from the intro piezo acoustic sound (into an acoustic preamp on his pedalboard) to the LP humbuggers to the Friedman Brown Eye amp for the heavy part and the solo.
With a good TM the acoustic part can get even better - not that anything is lacking in Justins tone IMO.
 
Rocket Brother said:
TM presets are a fantastic way to get perfect acoustic guitar tones from a piezo equipped electric guitar.
I can now leave my expensive acoustics at home and use my piezo equipped start - and now have an "acoustic" with a term and the playability of a great strat, and I can switch from acoustic to electric and back on the fly.
I use it a lot and it has opened up a lot of possibilities for me.
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Would very much like to hear this. Do you have a preset to share? Also interested in the the aforementioned 'Amp TM' presets. Maybe we can use this topic to post good TM presets?
Seems like a lot of people don't get it. Some good presets might convince the 'TM non believers'.
 
Tone matching is an invaluable tool for learning how to place guitars/other instruments in a studio mix.

I don't think it's intended purpose was to create solid live/bedroom jam guitar tones.
 
I would go over the tome matching guide, make sure you are collapsing a stereo signal to mono and having phase issues. Also, do not generally trust others tone matches of songs. Too many variables.
Also, make sure you understand what you are tone matching. Many times (besides sitting the mix), there are more than one amp in a mix that combones to make something massive. If you are just tone matching one of those amps, then the result could be thin.
 
Bodde said:
Would very much like to hear this. Do you have a preset to share? Also interested in the the aforementioned 'Amp TM' presets. Maybe we can use this topic to post good TM presets?
Seems like a lot of people don't get it. Some good presets might convince the 'TM non believers'.
Click to expand...

I'm away from my Axe rig right now, so I can't post a preset for you at the moment.
But just to be clear, an acoustic TM preset that I've made with my gear might not sound good on your rig as there are many variables to this - playing style, instrument and source file used and more.

I'll try to remember to upload a preset when I get back to my Axe rig, but in the meantime search this forum for former discussions about acoustic tones as there are a couple of great threads about this and IIRC there were good descriptions of peoples methods for making and using these, great stem files and quite a few presets - maybe those threads would be the perfect place for you to start
Hope this helps
RB
 
simeon said:
here's an acoustic tonematch i did of my electric piezos to a vid on youtube...


i've updated it since then by exporting the tonematch to a user cab so i could take advantage of the channel strip stuff. sounds even better now :)
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simeon, what vid did you use as the reference for that?
 
mr_fender said:
To me, tone matches are pointless unless they are made with my guitars. Way too much variation in guitars and pickups for it to sound the same for everyone.
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You need more guitars then. ;) While it may not be as dead bang as the original, if you have a correct for style guitar and select a typical pickup config a really well done tone match is going to work well and provide some great sounds, sure you'll have some of your own guitar's flavor but it is HARDLY "pointless".

chucma said:
I think I see more value for Tone Matching when you want to get your favourite amp on the Axe-Fx (obviously if it isn't already on there). So I would use it for an amp 'profiling' application rather than trying to match a sound that has already been fully produced and mixed in on a music track.

Cliff has shown many times how accurate this feature is, so it is definitely worth matching the source of the sound rather than the finished studio version.
Click to expand...

This is a good point as well. The more fully produced the tone match, the more flavors in there. I wanted raw amp tones that sounded and felt real and could mix and match highly flexible work flow... that's why I went AxeFx. If I wanted something that sounded exactly like someone else's signal chain most of the time the Kemper would have been a more appealing alternative to me.
 
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