Why Do People "Resist" Modelers?

Why don't more people embrace modelers?

  • Tradition

    Votes: 20 34.5%

  • Tweaking Styles

    Votes: 2 3.4%

  • Paradigm Shift

    Votes: 13 22.4%

  • Signal Chain Understanding

    Votes: 3 5.2%

  • Lost Gearlust

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Other (please describe)

    Votes: 20 34.5%
  • Total voters
    58
i think it's mostly tradition....but i feel like if there is ever a solution that can really nail the amp in the room vibe it will win people over. I hate that term, but it fits. I love my CLR (when it's working) and it sounds fantastic, but you accept it for what it is....an entire rig being mic'd and amplified through a speaker. I spent a couple of hours in the platinum room at GC last week playing Bogners, 3rd powers, Friedmans, a Splawn....it was a blast. I wouldn't want to go back to that, but there is a vibe there that I don't feel like anything gets yet.

I don't know that it ever will....and tbh i'll take hearing what my audience is hearing any day of the week over pants flapping bliss destroying everyone with the cone of death, but it's definitely fun to crank an amp and cab and feel it roar.
 
as much as i like axe-fx, valve amp will probably never be obsolete - and i hope they never do. pros such as guthrie govan still use valve amps some of the time, and i'd be surprised if he ever does go fully digital.
also for the typical guitarist, when specialist digital gear breaks down after warranty - it's not easy to get it fixed. it'd have to go back to the service centre resulting in lengthy repair time and considerable cost.
valve amps can usually be fixed easily by any "tom dick & harry" if anything goes wrong with it.
digital has great value, but it isn't the be all and end all (imo).
 
I think its just changing times.

It was unthinkable to mix a hit record entirely "in the box" not too long ago. Now we are slowly seeing records mixed this way becoming hits and admired etc.

The machine for making money from music has lots of parts; the talent, studios, engineers, mixers, producers, road crews, etc.

It will just take time for modelers to be absorbed into all that.

I believe we on the forefront of all digital music production. It's just not mainstream... yet :)

FAS is truly changing the game though.
 
For me, I waited simply because I didn't want to get disappointed like all the other times.
Anyone remember the first Digitech 21 Legend ala 1990? I saw the add and believed the hype.
And I got an an Eleven Rack (used $500) simply because of the price difference.
I was very impressed with the 11R and waited in the weeds for the perfect buy and snagged an Axe FX for $900 used.
I still love my tube amps but I love my black box just as much.

Bill
 
They may just be happy with what they are using. Brian May for instance doesn't really need an Axe FXII to do what he does. Neither does Eric Johnson, or Buddy Guy, etc.
 
I resisted modeling for a long time simply because of the POD. I had one way back (probably around 2000). Bought it for ease of recording and silent practice. I hated the sound and feel of it...DIGITAL! I managed to get some halfway decent gain tones, but only within a mix. It sounded horrible played solo. The ONLY way I could stand playing it solo was if I smothered the tone in delay and reverb. Cleans weren't too bad, but I rarely play clean.

A couple of years ago I decided to give modeling another shot (again, due to the ease of recording). This time it was in the form of VSTs in my DAW. I was pleasantly surprised once I found decent IRs to use. I mostly used the free amp sims from LePou and I still think I got tones with those that were nearly on par with the Axe. The Axe gives more a whole lot more to choose from, however.

Occasionally I'll still use VSTs when recording due to how easy they are to make adjustments on the fly (no reamping required, just turn the dial and hear the difference).
 
For me, the solo biggest problem with modellers (only really counting Fractal here as it's the only one I can honestly say is 100% serious gear) is that you spend more time faffing around rather than playing. If I counted the number of hours I've spent with different combinations of gear (IRs in particular!) then I could have learned another 100 songs!!
 
I just wanted to say that the "lost gearlust" is really an issue. I somehow miss buying pedals, lusting for amps and stuff...
Don't get me wrong; my GAS found ways to compensate (now I'm lusting for guitars and FRFR solutions and neat gadgets), but it just isn't the same anymore.
 
electronpirate said:
If any of you have any doubts, I'll point to 2 artists (and there are many others.) Steve Stevens and Pete Thorn. They demo everything on the planet, but DAMN, they make each one sound great. How does that happen....?
They play their fookin guitars.
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+1000 :eagerness:
 
Modelers aren't for everyone. It takes a commitment to change your methodology and most people are resistant to change. If you are a tube amp purist and love everything about your set-up, and are willing to overlook the negatives/limitations associated with tube amp rigs, then you have no motivation to embrace the "modeler paradigm" and are more likely to argue what you think is the best way to skin a cat.
 
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All of the early modelers sucked. Digital modeling didn't come into it's own until the AxeFX. Some people are just stubborn.
 
I think most are traditionalist. If you are a professional musician and have the luxury of having your own tech most would have both. However it seem most players choose to always choose to gig with traditional amp pedals and or rack effects including the AFX II. I really think most people buy modelers for two reasons. They are light weight and are loaded with tons of features. I remember when almost every amp company was building a combo modeling Amp. Johnson, Line 6, Fender then what happened, where are they now? How is the analog tube, pedal, markets? They are booming why one answer tone and feel.
 
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electronpirate said:
Frankly, I feel like it's an elusive something that is missed in the modeling world.

Play yer fookin' guitar.

We obsess on the internet about various aspects of tone in either modeling OR toob's. But the majority of great guitarists DO NOT spend hours of time on chat boards chasing elusive 2k mids, or eliminating 'fizz'. They PLAY, and...wait for it...PLAY their guitars and squeeze tone out of even the most sonically challenged Gorilla amp they have. Anyone mainstream famous can use a tube amp because it's their JOB to play at volume. Most of us do not have that option all the time...nor do we want it. But I get that basement playa needs to say 'he does it...so shall I'.

All these years on these boards, and I've found countless folks saying 'I'm waiting for the next iteration of <insert modeler-firmware-guitar-tubeamp>'. Thinking this is going to be the 'game changer'. It's not (IMO). FWIW, I've heard firmware 2.nothin on Standard/Ultra recordings that have sounded better than some Axe-II 'professional' recordings of endlessly tweaked presets. I've heard better tone out of some random guy in Austin playing a crackling (clearly sick) Mesa 1-12 who blew 1/2 stack, 12 space rack guy out of the water.

If any of you have any doubts, I'll point to 2 artists (and there are many others.) Steve Stevens and Pete Thorn. They demo everything on the planet, but DAMN, they make each one sound great. How does that happen....?

They play their fookin guitars.

The Axe is a tool; as is a pedal, FX unit, tube amp, etc. Obsessing about whether the amp has glowing tubes or not is irrelevant. Can you play no matter what signal chain you have? THAT'S what people don't get.

I did not mean to run on...but I've had a bit of 12 year old Jameson on my Birthday here, and sadly, I'm moderating a slumber party of 6 eight year old girls while my wife sleeps...and I need something to do! Yes, my daughters (twins...) b-day overlaps with mine to my despair...

R
Click to expand...
Happy BDAY man,,,,you old enuf to be hangin' wit Jameson? (teehee)
Pretty well sed bra...Pete T. just slams it outta da park...I'm looking forward to a post from him on a Gorilla and a mex. copy!
 
I agree with the post about "volume"
I (and many here) don't have the luxury of running full tilt with a dbl. 4 stack / 100w head...but we gotta sound like it anyway...the majik Fractal box is the blue pill for me.
I've used modelers for 10 years, all sound almost decent for max drive, but the cleans and crunches sound like dodo.
 
I went with "Other". I think some are happy with their gear. I think others have never really tried Fractal, and my think all modelers are the same. I also think some may have tried the early ones and just concluded that they all sound like... well you know.
 
Some people just focus on making music, irrespective of the gear. They will use a decent sounding amp for many years and see no reason to change anything. So I vote for "tradition".
 
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