Whether to get Axe Fx II XL for recording

A

asdfasd

Member
Hi all,

I've been lurking around these forums for a while and thought I’d ask for some general advice on my set up because I think the Axe Fx may become a central part of my recording rig.

Basically I’m looking at writing and recording at home. My current recording set up is an Edirol UA-25 soundcard into Reaper with Edirol MA-15D monitors. I primarily play metal and have a 6505 going into an oversized Mesa Rectifier cabinet, and I mic the cab using a Shure SM57. I program drums using Steven Slate SSD4 Platinum and I’m also looking at buying a Fender Precision bass.

One difficult thing about recording at home is being able to record a tube amp at a high enough volume to get it sounding good. I can only really get the 6505 to just over 1 on the post gain before the walls start shaking and the neighbours can hear. (Let alone driving everyone else in the house insane, not being able to record late at night etc.) I’m also sick of the ongoing cost of replacing tubes, and having them gradually sound worse and worse as time goes on.

From my understanding the Axe Fx would allow me to get a cranked tone while recording at quiet volumes. Is this correct? Or would I need to crank it up anyway to make sure that the tones sound just as good when loud? I would be recording via USB, using the Axe Fx as an interface. I’ve heard that tones from the Axe Fx are more ‘finished’ than recording a tube amp through a mic. Is it much easier to capture a great sound due to not having to worry about mic placement etc? Is it literally a case of finding a great sound in the Axe Fx, and then that sound translates straight into your DAW?

In terms of listening to the Axe Fx while playing – I know there are a few options - headphones, FRFR, using the computer monitors etc. My MA-15Ds sound good, but they’re obviously nowhere near flat in their frequency response. Eventually I’ll need to upgrade my studio monitors if I’m serious about mixing properly, but I’m wondering whether this is something that I should do immediately if I buy the Axe Fx. The alternative is to keep the current monitors and buy a FRFR. Is one of these options preferable over the other? If I join a band I'd like to be able to use the Axe Fx at rehearsals (where there wouldn't be a PA).

The other issue is that as anyone that has used a 6505 knows, it has an awful clean channel. Being able to record nice clean tones would also be great (obviously the Axe Fx can do this). I’m also not sure how recording bass direct into the UA-25 would sound, so an Axe Fx would probably be very helpful in this regard too.

I guess in an ideal world I’d splurge and buy the Fender P bass, Axe Fx II XL, a FRFR, a MFC-101, a new set of Mackie HR824s, great acoustic treatment for my recording room, and an excellent vocal mic, but obviously I have to prioritize a bit. Based on what I've written, should the Axe Fx be a priority? Or should I just get some basic acoustic treatment for my room and then try to record and mix with what I've got? Will the Axe Fx simplify the recording process and solve a lot of these issues, or just add weeks and weeks of OCD-style tweaking with settings before anything sounds good?

Sorry for the very general nature of the post, and thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.
 
Cheers guys. By half decent monitors, what level are we talking? I was thinking of saving up for the Mackie Hr824 MKIIs, as I've heard that Mackie make the flattest 'affordable' speakers out there. The Hr824s also have a pretty extended bass range meaning I wouldn't need a sub woofer, and would have no problem playing bass through them. What monitors are you guys using?
 
javajunkie said:
I would get to a place that has lots of studio monitors. Bring source material to listen to that you are familiar with. Play through as many different ones as you can.
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My only concern about doing that is that we apparently naturally prefer the sound of monitors that have a dip between 2k -4k, as opposed to monitors that sound flat. Also, unless the monitors are all played at the exact same volume, the Fletcher Munson effect can make it difficult to assess which monitors are the most accurate based on listening alone (I'd be looking for monitors that are as brutally honest as possible.) Unfortunately finding accurate specs regarding monitors can also be a bit difficult, as manufacturers don't seem to want to admit that their monitors aren't perfectly flat. :(
 
1) I'd heartily recommend Equator D-8's as monitors. I think their price-performance ratio is outstanding!
2) I don't use the axe as a digital interface, so I can't comment on it. I use a Rosetta-8 interface, so that means I'm actually going back to analog and thence back to digital. However, I don't notice any degradation of sound, and the Rosetta gives me more options (like recording 6 or 7 more channels at the same time without worrying about multiple interface contention issues with my DAW.
3) I now actually usually record my Axe direct out into a Chameleon Labs 7602 ModII-X-Mod preamp. This is, of course, not necessary, but it is a really fast and simple way to put the icing on the cake - the preamp itself has a round warm 'butter and syrup' quality, but it also has a really musical EQ - so I can very simply tweak the final sound right before it goes into the DAW. I find this works great. - BUT - I just recorded a track through a very neutral preamp (Focusrite ISA-828 ) at a major studio - straight from the output through the preamp and into Pro Tools - and it sounds AMAZING.

I Cannot tell you how amazing it is to get such great sounds for recording with NO mic'ing, no switching different physical amps and cabs - just playing with the Axe's parameters. The sounds are fantastic and to my ear indistinguishable to 'the real thing'.
 
To answer a few of your other questions:

- You do not need to have the AxeFx loud in the room to get absolutely cranking guitar tones (the equivalent of your amp on 10.) The only time volume in the room is useful is if you are trying to establish a feedback loop between the guitar and monitors.

- Bass through the AxeFx is a no-brainer. There are models of bass amps and cabs, or you can just mix and match any type of amp and cab. Or just forget the amps and use it as a high-quality tone shaper using EQ's, compressors and so on.

- Given the current level of the firmware, you can have both very raw sounding and/or polished tones. There are numerous settings to get you to whatever sound you are seeking. The 'polished' thing used to be a knock on the AxeFx for some people (others love it), but Fractal has been really nailing the craziness/rawness of tubes as Cliff has had his (seemingly never ending) series of epiphanies.

- Unless you are really OCD about your sounds, you can probably find quite a few useful presets right out of the box. The key when starting out is to just treat the amp models like a real amp and forget all of the advanced options. They'll be there when you want them (or are ready for them) but in the meantime the amps can sound great using just basic tone controls and switches. If you can't get one to sound the way you want, just try another (or another cab.)

- Finally, if *I* was spending your money:), I'd get the AxeFx now. Rooms can be treated with all sorts of low rent options, but your music is the main reason you're here. I personally find the huge variety of sounds the AxeFx can produce to be VERY inspiring.

All of this is my opinion, your mileage may vary, etc., etc., etc.

HTH,
TT
 
At the risk of adding nothing to the conversation, +1 to everything Tommy said.

I'm waiting for some FRFR monitors, but so far, everything I've done with the Fractal box is with headphones – loudness has nothing to do with it. With the exception of feedback, the Axe eliminates that issue.
 
Had the same issue with an AC30 and not being able to even remotely turn it up.

Bottom line is, the Axe has solved all my problems, sweet, sweet tones and no need for the neighbours to try an evict you!
 
Tommy Tequila said:
- Bass through the AxeFx is a no-brainer. There are models of bass amps and cabs, or you can just mix and match any type of amp and cab. Or just forget the amps and use it as a high-quality tone shaper using EQ's, compressors and so on.
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+1, I use the SV Bass amp block with low gain and no cab block, plus compressor and a bit of EQ'ing. Sounds fantastic.

Tommy Tequila said:
- Unless you are really OCD about your sounds, you can probably find quite a few useful presets right out of the box. The key when starting out is to just treat the amp models like a real amp and forget all of the advanced options. They'll be there when you want them (or are ready for them) but in the meantime the amps can sound great using just basic tone controls and switches. If you can't get one to sound the way you want, just try another (or another cab.)
Click to expand...

+1, I *never* (and I do mean never) use the Advanced parameters anymore. It sounds so good right out of the box just using an amp block with the defaults and only changing the normal stuff you'd adjust (drive, master, bass, mid, treble, presence), that messing with Advanced parameters is pretty much just a huge rabbit hole waste of time for me. Also, as others will point out, a huge part of the sound is the choice of cab, and there are a plethora of awesome sounding ones that come built-in, plus many more available for purchase through Fractal as well as 3rd parties like OwnHammer, Redwirez and The Amp Factory.

If you really want to hear what different combinations sounds like, start by creating a preset with just an amp and a cab block, and possibly a touch of reverb (since you won't have a cranked amp in the room). Be sure you adjust the volume to the level you expect to listen at before you start your tweaking.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the advice guys! I was aware that asking 'do I need an Axe Fx?' on an Axe Fx forum was probably going to get me a certain answer, but the more I learn about the Axe Fx the more I love it. I've been spending way too much of my time watching videos about the Axe Fx, researching which albums were made with it, trawling through posts on this forum etc. The only question is whether to get an Axe FX II or a II XL. Posts 4 and 10 in the thread below made me wonder whether it's better to go for the II:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-wish-list/87644-axe-ii-xl-having-its-own-forum-section.html

Unfortunately it looks like the Axe FX is only available in one store in Australia, which is located nearly 2000km from where I live and won't get another shipment of Axe's until early August. Really wish I lived in the US - $2,500 from the Fractal site and it's already in stock, as opposed to $3,169 here with a month wait (if you get in on the next shipment, otherwise likely a 2 month wait). I really need to move overseas. Don't even get me started on the price of beer here..
 
Hi,

I know what you mean - I must commend the Australian dealer however. When I decided to get the Axe FX II last year, I was worried about the distance too... turns out it's really not much of an issue. I'm in victoria, and I this then unit came overnight!

Also - I must say - Just get one... The XL is only a few hundred more and is the latest so get that. It's a lot of money - but you only think of the money once... In a few months, it'll be forgotten. The Axe FX has changed overnight (literally!) my enjoyment of playing guitar, the quality of recorded sounds, and of course I now have access to lots n lots of amps, speakers and effects... and I don't have to move a lot of air to sound good. I find getting the Axe FX is just like getting your first good microphone...All of a sudden, the sound is no longer the culprit! :) You will enjoy it.

Pauly


asdfasd said:
Thanks for the advice guys! I was aware that asking 'do I need an Axe Fx?' on an Axe Fx forum was probably going to get me a certain answer, but the more I learn about the Axe Fx the more I love it. I've been spending way too much of my time watching videos about the Axe Fx, researching which albums were made with it, trawling through posts on this forum etc. The only question is whether to get an Axe FX II or a II XL. Posts 4 and 10 in the thread below made me wonder whether it's better to go for the II:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-wish-list/87644-axe-ii-xl-having-its-own-forum-section.html

Unfortunately it looks like the Axe FX is only available in one store in Australia, which is located nearly 2000km from where I live and won't get another shipment of Axe's until early August. Really wish I lived in the US - $2,500 from the Fractal site and it's already in stock, as opposed to $3,169 here with a month wait (if you get in on the next shipment, otherwise likely a 2 month wait). I really need to move overseas. Don't even get me started on the price of beer here..
Click to expand...
 
Cheers Pauly - glad to hear that the Aus dealer is good to deal with.

Would anyone recommend that I buy a rack case like this? https://store-2cb68.mybigcommerce.com/onstage-flight-rack-case/

I've heard that any sort of power conditioning/ spike protection is not needed with the Axe Fx, (and is not needed with most equipment), so would I just require a rack case big enough to contain only the Axe? Or is there something else I may need to use with it later? I've never used anything rack-mounted before.
 
I can honestly tell you that I was in this exact same situation before I bought my Axe-Fx II. I was trying to get my dream tone to translate to in my recordings with my 6505+/Mesa Cabinet rig and I was very limited with what I could accomplish due to volume issues. Not to mention, the headache of not having the right room, mic, and all of the other elements working with one another drove me nuts. Even times when I recorded my 6505+ in places with the perfect scenario for recording guitars, the sound was still lacking and needed lots of tweaking and post EQ.

So...I bit the bullet and sold my entire rig from top to bottom and bought the Axe-Fx II. Within an hour of its arrival at my doorstep, I was able to get a tone that I was NEVER able to get with any of the tube amps I had ever owned/used in a recording situation. It was literally the tone I had dreamed of for the longest! And that was just with the factory presets. Once I became a little more knowledgable about it, realized its endless capabilities, and became more familiar with what worked best for me, I realized that it was the best decision that I had ever made as far as my tone and music production goes. And I can honestly say that it is the most amazing product I have every owned in my entire life in any category.

If I were in your situation, which I was, I would put the Axe at the top of the Get List. And if you sell you other rig to do so, I can tell you I don't regret doing it for a single second. Then maybe work toward grabbing some more decent monitors, although the relatively cheap KRKs that I used when I first got my Axe-Fx were plenty for what I was doing. But… the Axe-Fx is going to sound good going in either way. It just takes a little bit of tweaking to find which cabs and mic positions you like the most for certain amp models and whatnot, and where to cut or boost certain frequencies here and there to make them fit well in the mix. But TRUST ME… if you/when you get it…. you will see that it will renew your passion for guitar!
 
I have spent 5+ years on pedals/preamps/amps/vsts to try to get the lead tone I was after for recording...and which I finally did.

Having received my XL last week and after about an hour of going through the presets (w/o tweaking)...I have come very close to this tone with the presets in the XL and my vst's on my DAW.

I haven't sat down to "dig in" to the XL at all...but I am now selling all of my analog gear, because I know even w/o tweaks, I have great tone just in many of the presets...and it will only get better once the tweaking starts!

There are very few "killer" presets in the XL as headphone demos (imho)...but there is more than enough to give you a big push in the right direction.
 
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pauly said:
Hi,

I know what you mean - I must commend the Australian dealer however. When I decided to get the Axe FX II last year, I was worried about the distance too... turns out it's really not much of an issue. I'm in victoria, and I this then unit came overnight!

Also - I must say - Just get one... The XL is only a few hundred more and is the latest so get that. It's a lot of money - but you only think of the money once... In a few months, it'll be forgotten. The Axe FX has changed overnight (literally!) my enjoyment of playing guitar, the quality of recorded sounds, and of course I now have access to lots n lots of amps, speakers and effects... and I don't have to move a lot of air to sound good. I find getting the Axe FX is just like getting your first good microphone...All of a sudden, the sound is no longer the culprit! :) You will enjoy it.

Pauly
Click to expand...

Just to rub salt into the wound there is now a July 4th sale in the US, meaning that it's now $605 more to buy an Axe FX 2 XL due to living in Australia. :( How long is the warranty that comes with the Axe?

Glad to hear everyone rating the unit so highly. I can understand how it would make the guitar much more enjoyable. Being able to dial up almost any tone without even having to crank up an amp is mind blowing. I'll be able to sell a whole bunch of equipment I currently own too. Most of it will be completely redundant once I have the Axe.
 
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