Where would you prefer to install modeling pickup?

[Per]

When using the GK3 you have to set some parameters at the Roland VG device, like the Guitar Scale or the distance from each individual saddle to the GK pickup. These measurements are important for an accurate pickup modeling.

Yes, depending on which form factor I choose there will be some one-time settings to adjust. I'm not yet at the point where I'm ready to think about the exact user interface for this but I'm guessing there will be something close to the firmware update process.

Also, the GK3 shall not be installed more than 20 mm farther from the bridge. The closer to the bridge the better. I suspect that the regular bridge pickup position may not be optimal for pickup modeling, as it is too far from the bridge.

This is true. I mentioned this in a post above. The farther away from the saddle the pickup is, the more overtones it won't be able to detect. I think the effect might be small enough and predictable enough that it can be compensated for in software, but I haven't yet attempted to do that. I see it as a fairly strong argument in favor of the saddle form factor.

One other problem:

The saddle-based piezos, on the Variax, are famous for creating strange responses when doing palm muting.

Thanks for bringing this up. I have thought about this quite a bit actually. I have a theory on what could be causing this and why my pickup will not have this problem even if it's placed in the saddle but I haven't yet verified it. It's in progress!

There used to be a pickup called the LightWave pickup, used mostly for bass.

Perhaps that can optimize a modeling pickup's input-data, so as to allow better realism?

I actually bought an Atlantis hex guitar to experiment with for this project. I like it acoustically, but really don't like it plugged in. The biggest issue for me is the noise. It has white noise that's strong enough that I feel the need to use a noise gate even with very little gain. As such it can be useful for me to do experiments on but unfortunately I can't recommend it for anyone who actually cares about sound quality :-(

Edit: Also, Atlantis has a much bigger problem with palm muting than Variax. The shape of the bridge where the optical pickup is makes it impossible to do any kind of palm muting at all, you just can't reach the strings close enough to the saddle.

 

[Arindam Sen]

Any update on the progress of this pickup? And as a request feature would you also consider adding the feature of tuning individual strings digitally to set up any alternate tunings that an user wants to have?

 

[Piing]

Any update on the progress of this pickup? And as a request feature would you also consider adding the feature of tuning individual strings digitally to set up any alternate tunings that an user wants to have?

The OP hasn't showed up since August 2020


In the meantime, I love my GK-3 with the SY-1000 and the VG-99

 

[Johan Allard]

Sounds like an incredible ambitious project for a one-man operation doing something that would be better than what companies like Roland and Line 6 has managed to do with all their resources.

 

[Jipps0525]

I love my shuriken Variax both the guitar and the idea of it. Mine doesn’t “plink” much at all. Could come down to the individual guitar too. I think the Variax was convincing enough but obviously could be much improved. I would pay a lot of money for a new guitar modeling toy that included the alternate tuning abilities of Variax. Antares had a good product too with a cool idea, never got to try it though. This question may come off as very ignorant because I really don’t know anything about this technology, but one of the big issues with Variax is that it’s obviously limited to whatever guitars they make. Why can’t Variax be built as some sort of external box that you plug into with your quarter inch and then that goes to your fractal? is it because the cable would add latency? And please no 13 pin cables lol

 

[steadystate]

Sounds like an incredible ambitious project for a one-man operation doing something that would be better than what companies like Roland and Line 6 has managed to do with all their resources.

That's a very polite way of phrasing what could be expressed with one word.

 

[Johan Allard]

That's a very polite way of phrasing what could be expressed with one word.

Hehe, thank you. I tried

 

[Ole]

Sounds like an incredible ambitious project for a one-man operation doing something that would be better than what companies like Roland and Line 6 has managed to do with all their resources.

How many times do you think Cliff have heard this exact sentence?
Probably as many times as he proved it to be wrong

 

[ruso]

How many times do you think Cliff have heard this exact sentence?
Probably as many times as he proved it to be wrong

Cliff isn’t human. I think he’s part of an alien race that was sent back to accelerate the evolution of modeling technology. There’s no way a human being can accomplish that feat alone.

 

[steadystate]

How many times do you think Cliff have heard this exact sentence?
Probably as many times as he proved it to be wrong

While possible, the probability of him being comparable to Cliff is extremely low. I think it's far more likely that these are just idle internet musings. I'll stand corrected when a product appears.

 

[Johan Allard]

How many times do you think Cliff have heard this exact sentence?
Probably as many times as he proved it to be wrong

Absolutely, which is why I didn't phrase it as it couldn't be done. And same as with Fractal (and other modellers/capture devices), the first thing people would do is to pull out a '59 Les Paul and a '63 Strat, compare it to the modelled pickup and conclude that it doesn't sound as good as either of them, and 100% guaranteed it wouldn't in it's first iteration and probably never will. But lets say that it actually sounds good. From then on (same as with Fractal) there's going to be a decade long battle with people arguing for and against modelled pickup as a replacement for magnetic pickups and it's only if they really do solve a problem that people actually have that the inertia is going to be swayed in favour of pickup modelling I believe. At least enough to create a market. Fractal solve many problems that people actually have from shipping cost for touring bands, to flexibility in creating different sounds with minimal gear, to dependability that your gear is always going to sound the same, the ability for us hobby-musicians to get access to sounds that would otherwise require super-expensive amps played super loud in order to sound the way we've heard our favourite guitarists sound, and so on. Maybe once the technology is available the same would be said for pickup modelling but at the moment the fact that Line 6 hasn't updated its Variax in 10 years or so and Roland discontinued the VG-99 with no real replacement, it certainly doesn't seem that the market for pickup modelling is a particularly big or important one. For me personally, I don't really see it either, but the technologist in me would still find it interesting, and if enough people jumped onboard I would probably give it a go as well. I tried the Fishman Fluence pickups in a guitar before concluding they didn't sound significant better or offered any other significant advantages from my standard pickups and I would probably give modelled pickups a go as well if there was something that had a chance to sound better than my magnetic pickups, or offer some other advantage.

 

[Jipps0525]

Absolutely, which is why I didn't phrase it as it couldn't be done. And same as with Fractal (and other modellers/capture devices), the first thing people would do is to pull out a '59 Les Paul and a '63 Strat, compare it to the modelled pickup and conclude that it doesn't sound as good as either of them, and 100% guaranteed it wouldn't in it's first iteration and probably never will. But lets say that it actually sounds good. From then on (same as with Fractal) there's going to be a decade long battle with people arguing for and against modelled pickup as a replacement for magnetic pickups and it's only if they really do solve a problem that people actually have that the inertia is going to be swayed in favour of pickup modelling I believe. At least enough to create a market. Fractal solve many problems that people actually have from shipping cost for touring bands, to flexibility in creating different sounds with minimal gear, to dependability that your gear is always going to sound the same, the ability for us hobby-musicians to get access to sounds that would otherwise require super-expensive amps played super loud in order to sound the way we've heard our favourite guitarists sound, and so on. Maybe once the technology is available the same would be said for pickup modelling but at the moment the fact that Line 6 hasn't updated its Variax in 10 years or so and Roland discontinued the VG-99 with no real replacement, it certainly doesn't seem that the market for pickup modelling is a particularly big or important one. For me personally, I don't really see it either, but the technologist in me would still find it interesting, and if enough people jumped onboard I would probably give it a go as well. I tried the Fishman Fluence pickups in a guitar before concluding they didn't sound significant better or offered any other significant advantages from my standard pickups and I would probably give modelled pickups a go as well if there was something that had a chance to sound better than my magnetic pickups, or offer some other advantage.

There are some recent attempts; my Mooer GTRS Smart Guitar contains several different guitar models. And they ain’t half bad. If I used those models with my fractal, I bet I’d get distinct strat, les Paul and Tele sounds. Also, the sim1 pedal or sim1 XT. Haven’t tried that. Problem with those two options is they don’t have the custom tunings thing going on. It made the Variax such a fun and creative tool. And workhorse. Also, the Variax + helix combo is sooooo cool and grants users some cool options. I would be thrilled to see some sort of fractal guitar + modeling unit combo that can do what helix does. I could only Imagine some of the tones y’all would get. Here is a great video example of the power of the Variax + helix combo

 

[Johan Allard]

There are some recent attempts; my Mooer GTRS Smart Guitar contains several different guitar models. And they ain’t half bad. If I used those models with my fractal, I bet I’d get distinct strat, les Paul and Tele sounds. Also, the sim1 pedal or sim1 XT. Haven’t tried that. Problem with those two options is they don’t have the custom tunings thing going on. It made the Variax such a fun and creative tool. And workhorse. Also, the Variax + helix combo is sooooo cool and grants users some cool options. I would be thrilled to see some sort of fractal guitar + modeling unit combo that can do what helix does. I could only Imagine some of the tones y’all would get. Here is a great video example of the power of the Variax + helix combo

Still leads me back to my initial comment "Sounds like an incredible ambitious project for a one-man operation doing something that would be better than what companies like Roland and Line 6 has managed to do with all their resources."

 

[Jipps0525]

Still leads me back to my initial comment "Sounds like an incredible ambitious project for a one-man operation doing something that would be better than what companies like Roland and Line 6 has managed to do with all their resources."

I understand that and I know nothing about the technology or process behind developing something like this so I’m just spitballing here. But I still think big risk, big reward with this endeavor. Modeling/profiling has come very far and into the hands of many musicians that I firmly believe the same thing would happen for a solid guitar modeling/alternate tuning box or guitar. Idk what happened with the Antares products since that was before my time, but they had both guitars and a floor unit. The floor unit was cool. Never tried the Boss units or VG guitars but have heard mixed things. Personally, I love my variax. The modeled sounds were probably 90% of what the actual guitar (magnetic pickups) would sound like and it was plenty good enough for my agency cover band. problem with Variax is that you had to buy their guitars. Okay, some models are nice, some stink haha. So I think for it to be successful, it has to be some type of floor or pedal unit or something you can put into any of your guitars

 

[Ole]

While possible, the probability of him being comparable to Cliff is extremely low. I think it's far more likely that these are just idle internet musings. I'll stand corrected when a product appears.

I absolutely didn't mean to compare anyone, as I don't know them
Just wanted to add that sometimes, instead of immediately yelling "Impossible", we should take a step back, and at least for a few seconds think
"Hmm, Interesting. Let's see what he can do".

 

[Johan Allard]

I understand that and I know nothing about the technology or process behind developing something like this so I’m just spitballing here. But I still think big risk, big reward with this endeavor. Modeling/profiling has come very far and into the hands of many musicians that I firmly believe the same thing would happen for a solid guitar modeling/alternate tuning box or guitar. Idk what happened with the Antares products since that was before my time, but they had both guitars and a floor unit. The floor unit was cool. Never tried the Boss units or VG guitars but have heard mixed things. Personally, I love my variax. The modeled sounds were probably 90% of what the actual guitar (magnetic pickups) would sound like and it was plenty good enough for my agency cover band. problem with Variax is that you had to buy their guitars. Okay, some models are nice, some stink haha. So I think for it to be successful, it has to be some type of floor or pedal unit or something you can put into any of your guitars

I would say medium risk, small reward . Anyway, lets see if something actually comes to fruition out of this. The technologist in me certainly hope so.