What's so special about Matrix GT1000?

Galo said:
Well should we all say AMEN now!!!! Thanks RobinMatrix.

'
Click to expand...

This whole discussion has been very enlightening with respect to Class AB, MOSFET amplifiers.

For me I just love the sound and feel of valve amps and the moment I played through the GT1000FX I felt and heard it. I am glad to see it explained so eloquently.

This also explains why I never took to Class D Hypex type of amps used in other systems. From what I understand Chinese made Class D Hypex types of amps are a favorite with the DIY guys.
 
Last edited:
LVC said:
This whole discussion has been very enlightening with respect to Class AB, MOSFET amplifiers.

For me I just love the sound and feel of valve amps and the moment I played through the GT1000FX I felt and heard it. I am glad to see it explained so eloquently.

This also explains why I never took to Class D Hypex type of amps used in other systems. From what I understand Chinese made Class D Hypex types of amps are a favorite with the DIY guys.
Click to expand...

....and ElectroVoice powered LiveX Series ;) (and many others too).
 
  • Like
Reactions: LVC
Wow

coke%20and%20popcorn.gif


PacoCasanovas said:
....and ElectroVoice powered LiveX Series ;) (and many others too).
Click to expand...
 
RobinMatrix said:
It will sound fine, it's full range, flat response. Plenty of high very end hi-fi is valve powered, I don't hear them complaining much :)
Click to expand...

If that is true then why does Matrix continue to make and sell the XT line?

Either the GTs have been designed to be better audio amplifiers than the XTs, in all respects, or they haven't.

If the XTs are better for non-guitar-oriented audio then they should also be better for guitar-oriented audio.
If the GTs are better for guitar-oriented audio then they should also be better for non-guitar-oriented audio.
If that's wrong headed, then why is that so?

My understanding is that the Axe FX is designed so that all the tube mojo of a tube amp (especially the attack transient characteristics, and not just the distortion characteristics) is there in the signal and that that signal just needs to be amplified with the least amount of distortion/coloration to the speakers as possible in order for me to hear that.
So, with a device such as the Axe FX, I see no benefit to using a tube power amp that is never driven into clipping over a ss power amp unless that tube power amp was simply designed to sound more *accurate* to the source signal than the ss power amp.

When I dial a Mesa sim in on my Axe-FX and run it into my EVM-12L cabs, I want it to sound as close as possible to what it would sound like if I ran the real Mesa amp model into the same cab.
I know that Cliff's programming can come really really close to making that happen, but only if I use a power amp that does not alter the audio signal that Cliff has provided me with.
When I run my Axe presets into a live FRFR system and when I'm in a studio with hi-end monitors, I want both to sound as close to each other as possible, period.

When guitarists want a tube power amp that *is* driven into clipping or that does provide some sort of coloration, that's a whole other topic.
I'm sure there are players out there who are looking to colour the sound of their Axe-FX with some sort of post-Axe-FX distortion/coloration to the signal, but I'm not one of them.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I still don't know what that is.
I don't see anything from the folks at Bryston claiming that their amps are anything like tube amps.
Their amps are simply as good as is currently possible for amplifying *any* signal w/o coloration, period.
So changing your P.A. oriented ss mosfet power amp so that it sounds even more like a tube power amp still makes no logical sense to me.

Sure mosfet based amps have their own character.
But the XTs are also mosfet based.

If I were listening to pre-recorded music and A/B'ing an XT with a GT, what differences would I likely notice and which amp would be doing a better job, technically speaking?
The one that sounds better in that application is the one *I'd* want to be using with my Axe-FX.

I'm sorry.
I appreciate the time you put into your big post above.
I appreciate the great products you're putting out.
I appreciate the customer support at Matrix.
I appreciate the fast shipping times.
I appreciate the fact that I'm actually talking to a power amp manufacturer and that he's responding. That's pretty much unprecedented.
Etc., etc., etc.

And I really like my own GT1000 so far.
But my Bryston does sound better.

Sorry, but the whole logic of all of this still eludes me.
I would have bought an XT1000 if it was available in a 1U chassis.
I'd still like to get a chance to A/B an XT and a GT at some point.
I suppose that's the only way that I'll really get a sense for any of this.
 
^ +1

RobinMatrix said:
It will sound fine, it's full range, flat response. Plenty of high very end hi-fi is valve powered, I don't hear them complaining much :)
Click to expand...
I too don't understand why these high end hi-fi guys are buying the guitar version, if that is what you mean?
Or are you talking about other people that use the GT1000FX for both purposes, guitar and hi-fi?

Anyway, I guess for me I won't even hear a difference or problem, but was curious theoretically, esp. because of dynamics or note attack tweaks....
 
  • Like
Reactions: LVC
vAmp said:
^ +1


I too don't understand why these high end hi-fi guys are buying the guitar version, if that is what you mean?
Or are you talking about other people that use the GT1000FX for both purposes, guitar and hi-fi?

Anyway, I guess for me I won't even hear a difference or problem, but was curious theoretically, esp. because of dynamics or note attack tweaks....
Click to expand...

No, thats not what I meant. I meant the effect is very subtle, but present. You'll find a lot of hi-end hi fi users are still using class A valve amps ... all the REALLY expensive stuff is monoblock valve ... and you most certainly CAN hear the difference between a $200 bipolar amp and a $10,000 class A valve amp ... yet, plot the frequency response or overlay the traces ona scope, you won't see any difference .. both flat, both clean, low distortion. Yet the ear can tell instantly and obviously, the silky smoothness and crystal clear sound of a really good hi-fi amp is rather obvious, but looked at on a scope, the two signals will be very very similar.

My point was that while yes, our amps have been tweaked a little to give a certain "silky smoothness" to the sound, they are still crystal clear, flat and accurate.
 
@ Robin:

Thanks for chiming in here, your comments were highly appreciated :encouragement:


regarding the topic:

All what I can say about the GM50 is, this is a 1st grade and well made half bridge switched power supply, that delivers far enough energy.....when listen to it with music over my reference monitors at my workshop, there is that very special sonic quality I really like and know from older amps such as my Dynacord PCA 2450 (Hitachi 2SK176/2J56) power amp - very organic, strong with a silky smooth top end.....

hard to describe, but the GM50 delivers!!:eagerness:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: LVC
>> cranked, you can get a lot more, 200W

Um. No you can't. Tubes have finite power dissipation after which they redplate and die. In a typical guitar amp they're biased to 70% of their max dissipation (idle current * plate voltage), so that when you crank it, you get 100% or slightly more.
 
plexi59 said:
>> cranked, you can get a lot more, 200W

Um. No you can't. Tubes have finite power dissipation after which they redplate and die. In a typical guitar amp they're biased to 70% of their max dissipation (idle current * plate voltage), so that when you crank it, you get 100% or slightly more.
Click to expand...

when you crank them the peak power becomes almost average - which also almost double the power output compared to a clean max output swing. Tested it myself with an ENGL E840/50 - 1kHz sine max. 38W @ 8R no clipping, 76W @ 8R max. output possible (very heavy clipping). No redplate but the tubes wont last long in here under these conditions. :mrgreen - and your guitar signal is not just a 1kHz sine

Cheers
Paco
 
Think you might need to research this more thoroughly

Most amps can output 2 times their RMS power, but some very high efficiency amps can peak at almost 4 x their RMS.



plexi59 said:
>> cranked, you can get a lot more, 200W

Um. No you can't. Tubes have finite power dissipation after which they redplate and die. In a typical guitar amp they're biased to 70% of their max dissipation (idle current * plate voltage), so that when you crank it, you get 100% or slightly more.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
PacoCasanovas said:
......... (and many others too).
Click to expand...

Regarding Hypex Class D amps ... would you consider them fairly entry level?

I would imagine if you walked into the PA room of a major box music store the majority of powered monitors will have Chinese Hypex Class D amps or similar quality ones in them.
 
PacoCasanovas said:
when you crank them the peak power becomes almost average - which also almost double the power output compared to a clean max output swing. Tested it myself with an ENGL E840/50 - 1kHz sine max. 38W @ 8R no clipping, 76W @ 8R max. output possible (very heavy clipping). No redplate but the tubes wont last long in here under these conditions. :mrgreen - and your guitar signal is not just a 1kHz sine

Cheers
Paco
Click to expand...

PacoCasanovas said:
when you crank them the peak power becomes almost average - which also almost double the power output compared to a clean max output swing. Tested it myself with an ENGL E840/50 - 1kHz sine max. 38W @ 8R no clipping, 76W @ 8R max. output possible (very heavy clipping). No redplate but the tubes wont last long in here under these conditions. :mrgreen - and your guitar signal is not just a 1kHz sine

Cheers
Paco
Click to expand...

Yes, the point is, before power tubes start to distort, they're nowhere near their max power. In a tube amp, they'd be at about 65-70% of their power. If you measure a Fender Twin, which is considered to be a ridiculously loud amp, into a 4 Ohm load, you will find that its output power is about 65-68W. For cold biased amps (e.g. Mesa Boogie) non-distorted power might be slightly higher than that. The nominal power rating (for companies that actually care to specify the actual numbers) is at 10% distortion. 6L6GC is rated at 30W of plate dissipation. Therefore four of such tubes should be capable of 120W per spec, or maybe 130-140 beyond spec but without too much abuse. TL;DR: you can't get 200W out of an amp rated 100W.

The only quirk to all this math is that guitar transformers and speakers don't really care about frequencies below about 70Hz, so the output stage (that is, transformer and speaker) doesn't need to be efficient there. Therefore guitar specific tube power amp can be more efficient in the frequency band it does need to amplify. But even then you won't get more power than your amp's power supply is capable of producing, and as you get closer to the rated output, the voltage of the power supply will sag by about 10-15%, reducing output power.

PA amps have to be efficient throughout their frequency range, so they're not the same animal. I was just pointing out that one can't get "200-300W" out of a tube power amp rated at 100W.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Robin refers to a tube amp which is rated at 100W average clean output power - so yes, you can have more power out of it when pushing it into heavy clipping, because the average becomes almost the same as high as the peak (crest factor around 1). that was it what Robin was talking about..... :encouragement:
 
PacoCasanovas said:
Robin refers to a tube amp which is rated at 100W average clean output power - so yes, you can have more power out of it when pushing it into heavy clipping, because the average becomes almost the same as high as the peak (crest factor around 1). that was it what Robin was talking about..... :encouragement:
Click to expand...

Even if that were the case, you _still_ won't get "300W" out of it. At most, under the most theoretically pure conditions, and with zero power supply sag, you will get 2x.
 
RobinMatrix said:
Because our PA customers prefer them, and they have features you won't need on guitar, like 5kw/channel and 2R capability etc etc.
Click to expand...

What do "5kw" and "2R" stand for and how do these XT-only features affect THE SOUND of the XTs vs the GTs?

Besides those 2 features, and any other features that are XT-only, why do your P.A. customers prefer the sound of the XTs over the GTs?
 
joegold said:
What do "5kw" and "2R" stand for and how do these XT-only features affect THE SOUND of the XTs vs the GTs?

Besides those 2 features, and any other features that are XT-only, why do your P.A. customers prefer the sound of the XTs over the GTs?
Click to expand...

5kw = 5000Watt output power / 2R = @ 2Ohms minimal load
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom