Hi Joe
I knew it was a mistake to get involved in this thread
You're right, in that context it doesn't matter in terms of power-amp interaction.
I came at this thread more to comment on Matrix that the Axe. I use my Axe in the studio (and am very happy with its power amp simulation) but have been toying with reusing some older gear for rehearsal/live duties. One of the things I wanted to avoid was a tube power amp and as someone who believes it is perfectly possible to create a SS guitar-oriented (current-mode) power amp, I was intrigued by the Matrix. The marketing suggested it was designed for guitar use and is clearly SS so I got quite excited (this is going back a while). I could get one of these and use it with traditional pre-amp, guitar cabs setup but without some much weight!
However, as time went on, it became clear that the Matrix product is essentially a linear SS power-amp rather than what I expected. Comments from users here, other places and from the manufacturer seemed to suggest it had certain magical properties where it had all the attributes of a great PA amp but with some additional mojo, however, as has been said earlier in this thread, we don't know what contributes to that mojo is said mojo even exists
Then I found the Retrochannel product and this seemed to be what I thought the Matrix was. To me this is real innovation. A SS version of a tube power amp that sounds great. So I kind of got involved to mention it in this thread in the context that here is a real SS amp that really does have the mojo
Even though it probably isn't any good for FRFR :mrgreen
Finally, I wanted to raise the point, again, in context with amp design (given people were discussing various output topologies in context with how these might contribute to the sound) that what probably makes the greatest difference for guitar-oriented use is not whether it's class A, B, AB, D, G, H, T, S or whatever but how the output stage drives the speaker and reacts to speaker impedance changes, etc. And as we've seen with the Retrochannel and I guess some of those 80s guitar-oriented power amp designs such as Valvestate, MOSValve (did I remember that correctly?), this doesn't have to be done with tubes/valves.
Anyway, sorry for the diversion. Back to FRFR & Matrix
OK.
Thanks for clarifying.
We seem to have different needs/expectations for our power amps.
I just want something that amplifies the Axe's signal as accurately as possible.
You want something that colours it.
That's no problem IMO as long as you know that that's what you're doing.
As far as the Retro Channel or the Mosvalve or the Valvestate amps actually having some sort of tube-amp-like interplay with the connected speaker, I'm not sure that's really happening.
These amps appear to simply involve circuits that mimic various aspects of tube power amp breakup.
Plus they use Mosfets which have certain tube-like characteristics as far as attack transients are concerned.
The Retro Channel is unique in that it has both Gain and Master controls so the user can mimic power tube breakup at low volume levels.
To do that with the Mosvalve (which I used to own way back when) you just had to play loud, like you would with a real tube power amp.
If the Retro Channel also had an FRFR setting, it might be a good all-round solution for pretty much anything a guitar player would want to run through it from modellers to tube preamps.
But it does not appear to have a "right setting" for FRFR operation.
So again, to my way of thinking, the folks that want some sort of tube power amp coloration and/or overdrive simply don't believe that the Axe-FX can do what Fractal says it does or they just want something other than what the Axe can do on its own.
Again, that's all fine IMO, as long as they realize that that's what they're doing.
It should also be understood though that when you run the Axe into a power amp that colours the tone, you're not just colouring the tone of the Amp Block.
You're also munging your beautiful reverbs and chorusing and everything else the Axe is doing.
The great advantage of the Fractal Amp Block, compared to almost anything that came before the Axe (except maybe the H&K Cream Machine), is that it allowed us to place our digital effects *after* any power amp overdrive we were using.
In a real tube amp with an effects loop that is pre-power-amp, any effects in the loop are distorted by the power amp if it's being driven into distortion.
Effects loops were always a compromise.
In the studio, these types of effects were always on the mixing console, post-cab-mic.
Effects loops were invented so that we could mimic that type of studio signal path when playing live.
But if your tone involves any sort of power amp breakup, an effects loop is a BIG compromise.
The architecture of the Axe eliminates that compromise, but only if you don't introduce any post-Axe-FX distortion.
