What is the deal with FRFR cab makers?

Rick said:
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The EV speaker has absorbed a lot of the business that slipped through Atomic’s hands, and they’ve so far taken care of their customers. Smart, good business there. Let’s hope more follow that example. Oh, and let’s also hope Meyer Sound calls me to be a beta tester for their monitors. :)

A man can dream, can’t he?
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I'd rather wish that Meyer figures out how they can sell their speakers for 1/10 of their current price, at 1/4 their current weight, while keeping quality the same.

A man can dream, can't he? ;)
 
Rick said:
Agreed. There’s no excuse for how it’s been. I’m hopeful it’s improving at Atomic, but the number of customers alienated more by being ghosted than the actual equipment failure is going to be a real stain on their reputation. Many washed their hands of it and won’t do business with these makers, and I can’t blame them a bit. I guess I’m a sucker for a good come from behind win, so I’m still playing my Atomic and RCF speakers. They sound wonderful, but I’d be lying if I said I’m not dreading future repairs. In this case, I sincerely hope they prove those fears to be unfounded.

The EV speaker has absorbed a lot of the business that slipped through Atomic’s hands, and they’ve so far taken care of their customers. Smart, good business there. Let’s hope more follow that example. Oh, and let’s also hope Meyer Sound calls me to be a beta tester for their monitors. :)

A man can dream, can’t he?
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OMG Meyer with those prices!!!
 
Amp/Cab makers seem like they are dragging their feet about FRFR. Who do we have - just Laney, Friedman, and Line6 ? Seems like an opportunity for PA companies to make FRFR cabs to compliment their wedges.
 
MicroMort said:
Seems like an opportunity for PA companies to make FRFR cabs to compliment their wedges.
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They are.
PA Wedges = FRFR. There is no difference.

Maybe 'looks' could be different. If you want it to look like a guitar backline.
But FRFR is not a guitar/modelling specific speaker.
These niche companies (like Atomic and XiTone) are just making powered PA wedges.
In fact - the Atomic CLR was originally designed to be a PA speaker (per Jay Mitchell, the designer).

If you're not finding enough FRFR/Wedge options, dig deeper. All of the pro audio manufactures are making them.
RCF, EV, Yamaha, Turbosound, FBT....they all have powered coax wedges. (it doesn't have to be coax, but it seems to be what guitar players gravitate towards when looking for FRFR).
 
BBN said:
They are.
PA Wedges = FRFR. There is no difference.

Maybe 'looks' could be different. If you want it to look like a guitar backline.
But FRFR is not a guitar/modelling specific speaker.
These niche companies (like Atomic and XiTone) are just making powered PA wedges.
In fact - the Atomic CLR was originally designed to be a PA speaker (per Jay Mitchell, the designer).

If you're not finding enough FRFR/Wedge options, dig deeper. All of the pro audio manufactures are making them.
RCF, EV, Yamaha, Turbosound, FBT....they all have powered coax wedges. (it doesn't have to be coax, but it seems to be what guitar players gravitate towards when looking for FRFR).
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right. but I don't want wedge options. I want cab options. I want a 4x12 FRFR cab. I want something loud for when I'm at a small bar that only runs vox through the PA. Going by sweetwater, there aren't many big players in the FRFR cab space. (Yes, I know frfr is frfr)
 
BBN said:
it doesn't have to be coax, but it seems to be what guitar players gravitate towards when looking for FRFR
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The sound is just more, like the speaker, integrated, to my ear. I've progressively changed most of my powered cabs over to coaxial models. My PA tops and near/midfields are coaxials now, and it I love the sound improvement in the places I've used them. I'm not saying they're better period, just that I like them a lot in short to mid throw applications, which is always the case for a stage monitor (at least the stages I play on!).

I've often thought of building the components of a CLR or NX12SMA into a guitar amp combo cab, with a slot for an Axe FX in the top. It'd be a winning portable incognito guitar rig.
 
Rick said:
The sound is just more, like the speaker, integrated, to my ear. I've progressively changed most of my powered cabs over to coaxial models. My PA tops and near/midfields are coaxials now, and it I love the sound improvement in the places I've used them. I'm not saying they're better period, just that I like them a lot in short to mid throw applications, which is always the case for a stage monitor (at least the stages I play on!).

I've often thought of building the components of a CLR or NX12SMA into a guitar amp combo cab, with a slot for an Axe FX in the top. It'd be a winning portable incognito guitar rig.
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Sure, I like coax too. I still have a CLR and NX12SMA.
I know XiTone built a couple guitar combo cabs like you described (you've been around, I'm sure you've seen those posts). I think it's a cool idea if you want that 'still looks like a backline' feel.

@MicroMort
If I remember correctly - Tom King discussed a 2x12 (or bigger) was not going to be an option due to phase cancellation issues that would occur.
I'm not sure I know of any company putting more than 1 coax speaker in a box.'
I think some folks on this forum may have tried it, but I don't recall any great success stories.
My opinion - I don't think there is a big market for a 4x12 FRFR. Look at all the bands now a days playing modellers and (if anything) using dummy cabs on the stage. Less and Less bands are lugging around 4x12 cabs. If you were a major manufacturer of PA speakers, you're unlikely to think this is a good investment of R&D budget.
 
BBN said:
Sure, I like coax too. I still have a CLR and NX12SMA.
I know XiTone built a couple guitar combo cabs like you described (you've been around, I'm sure you've seen those posts). I think it's a cool idea if you want that 'still looks like a backline' feel.

@MicroMort
If I remember correctly - Tom King discussed a 2x12 (or bigger) was not going to be an option due to phase cancellation issues that would occur.
I'm not sure I know of any company putting more than 1 coax speaker in a box.'
I think some folks on this forum may have tried it, but I don't recall any great success stories.
My opinion - I don't think there is a big market for a 4x12 FRFR. Look at all the bands now a days playing modellers and (if anything) using dummy cabs on the stage. Less and Less bands are lugging around 4x12 cabs. If you were a major manufacturer of PA speakers, you're unlikely to think this is a good investment of R&D budget.
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The Cubo cabs have 2 coax drivers in the same box, and people seem to like them. (No opinion personally, haven't heard em.)
 
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@BBN - I'm with you on the technical limitations and feasibility... it's just my personal gripe about PA setups and wedges is that they aren't cabs.

I think the jump from tubes to modelers is tough for some people. I think the jump from cabs to wedges is also a psychological hurdle. Case in point (myself): all my FRFR speakers up to this point have been in cab form. I have 2 matrix FR12's and the Laney FR212. I also put 2 FRFR celestian F12-X200 speakers into my Matrix NL212 (sounds amazing). I'm just now coming around to trying an EV. In the circles that I play in, my band is an anomaly for even having modelers.... almost everyone else is still doing amp and 4x12. I don't see less and less bands lugging around 4x12 cabs yet unless I'm looking at professionals. I can't shake the thought that there's a market for frfr cabs from the big players. I've been wrong before, though :sweatsmile:
 
Dave Merrill said:
The Cubo cabs have 2 coax drivers in the same box, and people seem to like them. (No opinion personally, have heard em.)
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I did a small concert this Sunday with my CUBO in personal return because there was no return for this concert prepared in a wild way and sounded by a small sound system not adapted .... I had to push a little more CUBO than expected, it met my expectations.
And of course after the concert a guitarist who plays with an AxeFX2 came to see me because he was very surprised to see me using such a small amp....it can't push as hard as a 4X12 your thing.....actually no, but I hear my guitar well and the sound is good so .... where is the problem? And besides, my back thanks me.
 
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MicroMort said:
@BBN - I'm with you on the technical limitations and feasibility... it's just my personal gripe about PA setups and wedges is that they aren't cabs.

I think the jump from tubes to modelers is tough for some people. I think the jump from cabs to wedges is also a psychological hurdle.
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Yes absolutely. I went through the same process.
Now after years of playing with just wedges, I can't imagine going back. But it's a journey that everyone has to make at their own pace.
Since I'm now very comfortable with wedges, I just enjoying trying new brands/models/versions to see which will make me happiest on stage while making my load in as simple as possible.
My next jump (which lots of pros seem to have done) is going all IEM. I'm not there yet, but many of my friends are.
 
I just purchased two Yamaha DHR12M speakers this afternoon after testing them back to back with the EV PXM-12MP. The Yamaha's are on sale right now for $680 whereas the EVs are still like $950. The EV was slightly smaller and sounded about the same, maybe a tad more low mids (which I didn't like) plus it had all these other features I didnt care about (LCD screen, more inputs, presets, phantom power, ect). It's also slightly smaller and slightly lighter but the Yamaha is pretty light too. I'm gonna do an elaborate comparison video on FRFR speakers and will post it here when I'm done.
 
MicroMort said:
right. but I don't want wedge options. I want cab options. I want a 4x12 FRFR cab. I want something loud for when I'm at a small bar that only runs vox through the PA. Going by sweetwater, there aren't many big players in the FRFR cab space. (Yes, I know frfr is frfr)
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Why do you think a 4x12 FRFR will necessarily be louder than a 1x12 wedge? This is a full range PA - they can be ungodly loud!

If you want more than a 1x12 (or two), check out Accugroove:

https://accugroovellc.com/collections/frfr-guitar-cabinets
 
unix-guy said:
Why do you think a 4x12 FRFR will necessarily be louder than a 1x12 wedge? This is a full range PA - they can be ungodly loud!

If you want more than a 1x12 (or two), check out Accugroove:

https://accugroovellc.com/collections/frfr-guitar-cabinets
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Yeah for sure... funny thing about loudness... having 2 identical powered speakers != double the volume, unfortunately! I bet that's another thread somewhere around here.

I'm actually fine with my current setup. The Laney 700w FR212 get's louder than I'll ever need (although now they have retailers in the states, I'm looking at a 2nd one o_O). I apologize for the way I structured that reply - I think I was going for the voice of every punk band that has lasted more than a few years and are just starting to sound decent. All I see these guys playing are your standard amps and 4x12's.

Like yourself, I've been on this forum for a while... Coming up on 10 years! I remember doing a fair bit of research on accugroove and I recall a time when they were just getting going where they didn't take care of certain phasing issues. They were also quite argumentative on some forums about it. I just tried to search for it (maybe I'm mistaken) and couldn't find it. The robusta looks promising. Having one speaker slanted is super helpful on stage IMO (yeah, I know that's what a wedge does, lol). So waaay back then, at the end of the day, I chose matrix and have more or less stuck with them for a bit without any major issues.
 
Dave Merrill said:
The Cubo cabs have 2 coax drivers in the same box, and people seem to like them. (No opinion personally, have heard em.)
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Yes and the Cubo EX is a 4x8 cab.
I can’t imagine that you will need more than that but Blueamps is a custom shop and Marco will maybe be able to make a 4x12 Cab if requested.
 
Rick said:
Sweet looking rig!
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Thanks mate, yeah, it certainly looked awesome, and sounded great as well. It also turned out big so even if was one thing to carry instead of two it was definitely bigger than the two things separately and less practical unfortunately. I sold it within a couple of months.
 
Johan Allard said:
Thanks mate, yeah, it certainly looked awesome, and sounded great as well. It also turned out big so even if was one thing to carry instead of two it was definitely bigger than the two things separately and less practical unfortunately. I sold it within a couple of months.
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I wondered if size/weight might be an issue, and a reason you don’t see them all the time.
 
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