What is the deal with FRFR cab makers?

Does EV make a smaller PXM?
Like without all the Bluetooth and maybe 10 inch driver and 300 watts or is that it for the coaxial powered versions
I wonder maybe Namm they will have a smaller wedge
 
Rick said:
Will do. I’m not an expert in anything but the sound I like, but my preferred equipment has been fairly commonly used here so I’m not too far off center. :)
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What have you been using for the last year? Plenty of PA speakers that sound good to choose from... K12, K10, Yamaha DRX, etc. I think too many guys want use the cheapest PA speakers (Altro, Headrush,etc) and are somehow surprised that it doesn't sound very good at gigging levels.
 
chrisjnyc said:
What have you been using for the last year? Plenty of PA speakers that sound good to choose from... K12, K10, Yamaha DRX, etc. I think too many guys want use the cheapest PA speakers (Altro, Headrush,etc) and are somehow surprised that it doesn't sound very good at gigging levels.
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My CLR still works, it just gets this odd fizzy trail to notes from time to time. Still usable, just annoying when it happens. At home I have a music room with Presonus Sceptre 8s and 328Ai speakers in it. I’m not lacking for speakers other than a good pure monitor for gigging. The CLR and RCF were perfect for it, and their true coaxial design (more so than the speakers that lack a horn controlling output in the center) was just right for the “up close” monitoring that PA speakers aren’t designed to accommodate. Unfortunately, the RCF is now in for a repair that is likely to cost at least half of a new EV, and I can’t even get Atomic to service their speaker. Once I either have the RCF back, or buy the EV, I’ll sell the Atomic and move on.

I know people are using PA speakers and are happy with them. I just prefer something that is built for the short throw a stage monitor is built to handle. If I played on larger stages all the time, that would be moot. Once you play in the just-right envelope of a good coaxial wedge, it’s hard to be satisfied with the harsher up close sound of a powered PA box.
 
hippietim said:
I am a huge fan of RCF speakers. Our mains are RCFs and my goto FRFR has been an RCF ART 708 mk IV for years. I use the 708 for guitar and bass. I recently grabbed a 710 solely for more headroom when I'm doing a bass gig.
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That’s why I opted to get the NX12SMA repaired… sounded incredibly good through hundreds of playing hours. I had it stored because I couldn’t find a repair source, but now they have the factory shop in NJ, so off it went.

There are cheaper options, but I really want the sound of that one back. I’d love to have two, but the price has gone out of sight since Covid.
 
I'm another EV PXM12-MP user here. I think I've had mine for about a year and I've used it with my FM3, FM9t, HX Stomp and Helix Floor units (those don't belong to me). It sounds great, is compact and super useful in all kinds of gigs from loud rock clubs to playing in a duo with a steel drum player and backing tracks. The only regret that I have is that the PA's that I play through the most are either RCF or QSC and I think that the EV sounds different enough from those speakers that my sounds in FOH aren't the same. This isn't a big deal in venues with a dedicated FOH mixer but many of my gigs are mixed from onstage so I never feel like I know what they are hearing in the audience. I'm sure they don't actually care and it sounds fine but I'm a headcase like that.
 
Rick said:
My CLR still works, it just gets this odd fizzy trail to notes from time to time. Still usable, just annoying when it happens. At home I have a music room with Presonus Sceptre 8s and 328Ai speakers in it. I’m not lacking for speakers other than a good pure monitor for gigging. The CLR and RCF were perfect for it, and their true coaxial design (more so than the speakers that lack a horn controlling output in the center) was just right for the “up close” monitoring that PA speakers aren’t designed to accommodate. Unfortunately, the RCF is now in for a repair that is likely to cost at least half of a new EV, and I can’t even get Atomic to service their speaker. Once I either have the RCF back, or buy the EV, I’ll sell the Atomic and move on.

I know people are using PA speakers and are happy with them. I just prefer something that is built for the short throw a stage monitor is built to handle. If I played on larger stages all the time, that would be moot. Once you play in the just-right envelope of a good coaxial wedge, it’s hard to be satisfied with the harsher up close sound of a powered PA box.
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I would suggest a 1x12 or 2x12 cab and a small power amp. Not the easiest option to lug around, but if you are chasing the sound of a guitar cab... it just works
 
Mark Wein said:
I'm another EV PXM12-MP user here. I think I've had mine for about a year and I've used it with my FM3, FM9t, HX Stomp and Helix Floor units (those don't belong to me). It sounds great, is compact and super useful in all kinds of gigs from loud rock clubs to playing in a duo with a steel drum player and backing tracks. The only regret that I have is that the PA's that I play through the most are either RCF or QSC and I think that the EV sounds different enough from those speakers that my sounds in FOH aren't the same. This isn't a big deal in venues with a dedicated FOH mixer but many of my gigs are mixed from onstage so I never feel like I know what they are hearing in the audience. I'm sure they don't actually care and it sounds fine but I'm a headcase like that.
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Hmm, I hear what you're saying, that always bothered me too.

But that's always going to be the case, unless you want to exactly match every FOH system you play through, which for most people and venues isn't going to happen. I suppose if you play a lot of places with the exact same setup you could match that, but that strategy degenerates pretty quickly.

Gotta just make it sound inspiring to you, play well, have a good time, and rely on the FOH mixer, or if it's you from on stage, your best guess.
 
Rick said:
Holy cow… was looking into a Xitone because I remembered people raving about them in the past, and I’m stuck in “Atomic Purgatory” looking to get a minor issue in my CLR repaired. Came back and searched the forum on Xitone and read through the thread on all the issues people are having even getting cabs they’ve already paid for! Wow. “Atomic CLR, the Sequel.” A past issue with RCF didn’t go any better. I had an NX12SMA making odd pop noises every now and again and couldn’t find anyone who could do RCF-approved repairs on it. It just seems to me that if it has a power amp in it, then it’s intended to be thrown away when it breaks. And it will break! All of these high-quality, expensive brands do it and you’re left high and dry when they do. How about just making OEM replacement amps readily and economically available? Nope, not even that.

Make excuses if you want, but the repeated ghosting on your customers is poor business and reflects on these proprietors personally. Good people don’t do that, plain and simple.

I‘m with everyone here on wishing FAS made a guitar cab for their modelers. But they don’t, so what’s the best way forward? Are we at a spot where you just plan to drop $1k or more on a powered cab every three years and throw the old one on the scrap heap? I am sure that there’ll be responses saying “I’ve gigged my cab 20,000 continuous nights, never turning it off even when it was in the trailer, and it still works like new!” I’m happy for you if that’s you, but realize that you’re among the blessed few.

By the way, I’m not crying and wailing about it. I’m seriously looking for the best option on all-in-one powered FRFR guitar cabs going into the future. Powered PA cabs? They seem to hold up better, but is that the best option we have? Home made cabs might be a thing. I know you guys have ideas, and I’m not alone in the frustration and disappointment over the great sounding but poorly supported options we’ve had so far.

I hear a lot of “modelers are taking over” and “tube amps are a thing of the past” statements, yet I have several tube amps making great music today at 30 to 60 years old! And if something were to break, it’s easily repaired. I can’t get 60 months out of a FRFR without issues, and can’t get them repaired when they do break. And now I read you can hardly get a powered cab delivered even when you’ve already paid for it. Someone has to be doing it better. A level of resiliency in FRFRs will really move modeling forward, but the amplification isn’t keeping up with the modelers. I really want to stay small with the rig, and not go back to racks, amps, and cabs. FM9 —> FRFR --> done.

What’s out there? Anything on the horizon?
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Oh man, not what I wanted to hear today. Cooper Carter talked about the “big names” using Meyer Sound JM-1P, but those things are a couple thousand for a used one.

I didn’t buy this unit just for convenient home recording.
 
chrisjnyc said:
I would suggest a 1x12 or 2x12 cab and a small power amp. Not the easiest option to lug around, but if you are chasing the sound of a guitar cab... it just works
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I appreciate the input, sincerely... but the RCF and CLR work perfectly for me. As long as they're working! I guess I should also say that I don't mind that they need repair. When I say they've had hundreds and hundreds of hours on them, I mean gig level, running for six hours at a time, over and over for years. I expect they'll need fixing from time to time. It's that (in the case of the CLR) you can't get them fixed and I'm not near enough to a competent "generic" repair facility to let someone else take a shot at it that annoys me so badly. The RCF is on its way to NJ (1600+ miles from me) for repair, so shipping will be a large portion of the cost. But at least I can get it repaired! For years, I knew of no one that did factory repairs on RCF gear.

I have tons of guitar cabinets and power amps. I did that route for a time. It does sound great! I'm really not looking to go back, as I may as well just go 4CM with an amp if I have to lug an Eric Johnson rig everywhere I go. I envision my future rig getting more portable, so I have to have a wedge or two to fit the plan.

Again, I do appreciate the suggestions, and I do know there are alternatives. I've just found a solution that perfectly suits me that I am trying to maintain, and would be able to if simple repair facilities were maintained by these companies! So, if the RCF can be fixed, I'll be good for a while, and likely will buy the EV speaker to start testing for future options. If the cost of repair is too high, here I come EV!!
 
Rick said:
I appreciate the input, sincerely... but the RCF and CLR work perfectly for me. As long as they're working! I guess I should also say that I don't mind that they need repair. When I say they've had hundreds and hundreds of hours on them, I mean gig level, running for six hours at a time, over and over for years. I expect they'll need fixing from time to time. It's that (in the case of the CLR) you can't get them fixed and I'm not near enough to a competent "generic" repair facility to let someone else take a shot at it that annoys me so badly. The RCF is on its way to NJ (1600+ miles from me) for repair, so shipping will be a large portion of the cost. But at least I can get it repaired! For years, I knew of no one that did factory repairs on RCF gear.

I have tons of guitar cabinets and power amps. I did that route for a time. It does sound great! I'm really not looking to go back, as I may as well just go 4CM with an amp if I have to lug an Eric Johnson rig everywhere I go. I envision my future rig getting more portable, so I have to have a wedge or two to fit the plan.

Again, I do appreciate the suggestions, and I do know there are alternatives. I've just found a solution that perfectly suits me that I am trying to maintain, and would be able to if simple repair facilities were maintained by these companies! So, if the RCF can be fixed, I'll be good for a while, and likely will buy the EV speaker to start testing for future options. If the cost of repair is too high, here I come EV!!
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I’ll be looking into the EVs as well. If I have good sound at my feet, I play better. I usually have my amp (tube) sound very low (or off) in floor monitors, because it often doesn’t sound anything like the amp behind me…makes me feel like there’s something wrong with my sound, and I can’t relax. Often the drums take up so much time at sound check, that there isn’t enough time for dialing up a good monitor sound. When a great monitor sound does happen, I know I’m going to have a great time.
That was one of the imagined perks of having the FM9 (as opposed to the FX8 with 4CM), in that the monitor sound would always sound “right”. And, hopefully the EV would work well for rehearsals too.

Hmmm. Another grand after just splashing out for the FM9, and I need some good near field monitors for the home studio too…
Ah well, such is the life of a musician. 😑
 
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Scooterjohn said:
I’ll be looking into the EVs as well. If I have good sound at my feet, I play better. I usually have my amp (tube) very low (or off) in floor monitors, because it often doesn’t sound anything like the amp behind me…makes me feel like there’s something wrong with my sound, and I can’t relax. Often the drums take up so much time at sound check, that there isn’t enough time for dialing up a good monitor sound. When a great monitor sound does happen, I know I’m going to have a great time.
That was one of the imagined perks of having the FM9 (as opposed to the FX8 with 4CM), in that the monitor sound would always sound “right”. And, hopefully the EV would work well for rehearsals too.

Hmmm. Another grand after just splashing out for the FM9, and I need some good near field monitors for the home studio too…
Ah well, such is the life of a musician. 😑
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My EVs were $825 each, but I picked them up in person in NH, so no tax or shipping.
 
Randalljax said:
Does EV make a smaller PXM?
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No.

Randalljax said:
Like without all the Bluetooth and maybe 10 inch driver and 300 watts or is that it for the coaxial powered versions
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Drop into their cheaper line and you lose the coaxial speaker and its wattage and flexibility, and get into smaller speakers and run into Bluetooth.

Randalljax said:
I wonder maybe Namm they will have a smaller wedge
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Dunno.

The PXM-12MP is already pretty small because it’s coaxial and is relatively lightweight. Its “Monitor 2” setting is pretty flat and it can get LOUD!
 
Scooterjohn said:
I do have other amps and a full PA, so I have other non-ideal options. 🫤
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Why is a full PA non-ideal? Good speakers are good speakers, whether they’re for “PA” or “FRFR”, which basically means they’re suitable for accurate sound reproduction, which is exactly what we want for use with a modeler.

The Wiki says:
FRFR systems include:
  • Studio monitors
  • Active (powered) FRFR cabs and wedges
  • Passive FRFR cabs and wedges, powered by a separate neutral amplifier
  • High-quality headphones
  • High-quality P.A.
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If you have powered speakers, give them a try. If they have compensation curves built-in, use the one that is the flattest. If they’re passive and you have a neutral power amp then use that combination, just use as flat of a response as you can get.

Seriously, there’s nothing magical about “FRFR” speakers, they are just neutral. Beyond that you want something that is loud enough for your needs, and if you’re using them live you probably want something that is easily carried around.
 
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