What is the deal with FRFR cab makers?

What ever happened to that Jay Mitchell project he posted about on the gear page a couple years back?

I want something compact and stereo with clr like sound.

I do like the sound of the Bose S1 pro for being compact and light weight, the sound is good but not perfect. It does seem dependable.
 
I agree that there don't really seem to be many good, reliable options. You'd think there would be money to be had in this market, but perhaps it is still too niche.
I think it’s a niche market when only viewing it as “for guitar modeling”. When we look at the actual needs, of full range and flat-response, which is the goal of the upper-end of FOH sound reinforcement systems, the choices open up.

I want something compact and stereo with clr like sound.
I’m curious about the sound of the Aspen Pittman Spacestation systems. @Joe Bfstplk has one and talks about it very positively.
 
This could be a cool segment to for DIY. Dayton Audio makes Xitone's power amps and they allow you to tweak the EQ curve on your computer via USB. Beyond that, you just need wood, a speaker, a few little knickknacks (handles, rubber feet, tolex, ect) and you've got yourself a cabinet. We could then geek out together comparing different building techniques, power amp specs, ect.
I’m waiting for someone to design a good cabinet using a large format 3D printer, using almost a foam-core material for the walls for lightweight strength. Use the Celestion FRFR speaker cab plans to specify the internal air-volume needed to maintain the frequency response. Maybe some upperclass acoustic and mechanical design students in college would take it on as a project.
 
I think I was the first one here to try the EV PXM-12MP's, and the first to call out the distortion "tail" on fading notes in this forum. I have to say, as soon as I contacted EV's Tech Support, they responded. They asked for a video, which I sent. They then told me they were discussing "with engineering" what the problem might be. Within a week, I had an RMA and shipping label for the whole unit, although I'd offered to pull the power amp out and send it separately. Within 2 weeks after that, I had a new unit and they had apparently found and fixed the issue.

Lots of other people here apparently also ran into the problem, and were able to get them to fix it in a reasonable amount of time. Moreover, they fixed the problem for new units completely. I have two of these now that both sound great.

As difficult as it is for a small company to pull together and do tech support well, I think it's also pretty hard in a large company where complaints can get lost in the noise. So my hat is off to Electrovoice for doing right!

A lot of what I’ve heard here today has this as my most likely next option. I need to just sell off (at substantial loss) the ones I have and move on.

I agree that there don't really seem to be many good, reliable options. You'd think there would be money to be had in this market, but perhaps it is still too niche.

Guitar wise, modeling is a niche market still. We are having to borrow from PA gear to get something workable, but it’s often a compromise as these enclosures aren’t designed to be listened to up close. The EV monitor Greg and greiswig suggested looks to be the best moderately priced system out there, and I like that it uses a lot of the same ideas that make the RCF and CLR speakers sound so good.

The funniest thing, considering all the “tubes are unreliable” silliness you hear, is that my original Atomic Reactor 50 watt tube monitor just keeps going and going. Gigged the snot out of that thing early on. It still works fine to this day, as does an old tube Atomic 50/50 tube power amp I bought used a while back.

Fractal and Atomic had some sort of partnership back in the day and then they split off from one another. This was years before my first Fractal unit so I didn't follow what happened there. But I'm sure something about that experience informed Cliff's decision to stay out of FRFR. That, and it's a crowded, low-margin space already.

This could be a cool segment to for DIY. Dayton Audio makes Xitone's power amps and they allow you to tweak the EQ curve on your computer via USB. Beyond that, you just need wood, a speaker, a few little knickknacks (handles, rubber feet, tolex, ect) and you've got yourself a cabinet. We could then geek out together comparing different building techniques, power amp specs, ect.

My impression was that it was… interpersonal. Irreconcilable differences.

I’d bet that if you got a couple of Meyer wedges or cabs, you’d never look back.

Thanks
Pauly

I do so agree, Pauly. I wouldn’t have time to look back. My wife would be chasing me with a stick after she saw the bank balance!
 
Tried a kazillion of them, came across the GR AT210A ST a year or so ago and never looked back. A satisfying end to a decade long rabbithole quest.
So are these the FRFR’s that suit everybody’s needs? Probably not, but if you ever have the chance I can highly recommend giving one a testdrive.
 
Tried a kazillion of them, came across the GR AT210A ST a year or so ago and never looked back. A satisfying end to a decade long rabbithole quest.
So are these the FRFR’s that suit everybody’s needs? Probably not, but if you ever have the chance I can highly recommend giving one a testdrive.
I tried to find them but every place I looked online said “out of stock”, which makes me wonder if they are out of business or severely impacted by their suppliers.
 
Repeating myself, but...I built two of the Celestion DIY cabs for the F12-X200, made them self-powered with Dayton 600W plate amps. I also managed to get a 10" rear-ported cab from Xitone, though it was a white-knuckle ride waiting for delivery in time for an important showcase. Mick did come through in time, so credit given where credit due.

The little Xitone 10" self-powered cab is a great self-monitor, and a reasonble option for small jazz/blues/rock gigs. I use it for rehearsals, and it makes a very portable "B" rig with my old AX8. I doubt it would hang with heavy stuff by itself. I much prefer the Cele cabs, they sound and feel terriffic, as does the AXE-FX. The Dayton plate amps have a lot of self-noise, but that only matters at home. There are other plate amp sources available.

I've used them for several gigs, and am very happy with them. I only rely on them for my "more me" stage monitor, and go direct for FOH. I've posted pics in the Cabs forum. Easy to build if you're suitably equipped, or perhaps a friend or small shop cabinet maker could cut the pieces for you. A single 4x8 sheet can yield two cabs.
 
The CLRs are a BIG part of my setup. I've had two fail and getting repairs is more stress than it should be. Feels like we are dealing with small companies that are just overwhelmed by the demand and one guy trying to "do it all".
 
Interesting thread as I'm considering a smaller FRFR cabinet for rehearsals. I have one of the custom 1x12 XiTone cabinets with a 3U rack space on top that Mick was building a few years back - 12" Eminence coaxial speaker and a 50W Matrix amp. I'd been using exclusively at home for years but have started up a new project where I need to bring it with me for rehearsals. I love the thing to death but, even tho it has casters, it's a beast to move and my old bones are complaining about it. I'm looking for something that's more of a traditional guitar build format. The Friedman's look interesting as does the Mission Gemini I (it's EmPower knob looks most intriguing). I'm leaning towards the Gemini - at 45 pounds - but the price tag is a bit more than I can do right now. The earlier mention of the EV's caught my attention so I may investigate that one instead.
 
I'm kind of in the same boat. I have a pair of CLR's, which sound pretty good, but I'll probably end up selling them soon as I don't want to deal with Atomic if they end up with a problem. I tried the MF-10's. To me, they sounded in between a FRFR monitor and a traditional cab. They did have a very nice punch to them, IF they were turned up loud enough. I wanted to try the RCF NX12SMA's, but Mike from Audiopyle Sound said the eta for the next order won't be in until August. He sells them at a significant discount compared to other dealers. I am curious about the EV PXM-12MP's. They seem to get good reviews here. I even check Reverb.com every few days to see Meyer Sound listings, but haven't had any luck. I'm a little surprised there aren't more options in the $2K-$5k range, but I'm hoping that will change sometime soon. I'm still loving my Adam A7X's and recently upgraded to Sennheiser HD650 headphones and for the first time ever, I'm actually really enjoying playing guitar through headphones.
 
I've been sort of drifting towards more of a DIY solution. FRFR-ish speaker, generic cab, and separate amp. Then, if I have a problem with one of them, I can replace that part myself. A Celestion F12 in a box I build, and then Fryette, Matrix, etc.

I get that it might not be perfect, and that I'll probably have to tweak presets, and it certainly isn't as easy to haul around as one unit, but it might be able to be close. Something like a SD Powerstage could certainly go in the cab.
 
I tried to find them but every place I looked online said “out of stock”, which makes me wonder if they are out of business or severely impacted by their suppliers.
Well, they are not out of business as far as I know. They are also really nice guys, if you email them regarding a possible purchase they are usually quick to respond and refer you to a dealer nearby. I did a demo at their Benelux distributor center recently and there were cabs galore. Maybe their overseas distribution isn’t up to par right now, or production is not keeping up. Shame really.
 
Pair of EV PXM-12MPs here. They sound good to me, reasonable size and weight, and they just work. $825 each picked up. Not cheap, but not Meyer level either. Working person's pro gear IMO.

With all the drama around CLR and Xitone failures and non-service, it was genuinely good to see EV's response to the distortion issue some folks ran into. They researched it, found the cause, fixed any out in the field with the problem pretty quickly and at their expense, and fixed it in production before I got mine. Can't ask for better service.
 
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I love all the EV's that I've had. Evolve 50's, ELX-112ps, EKX's. I don't have the PXM-12MP's though. The one thing that I have been digging with almost any of these FRFR PA style speaker inside the house is having them off the floor with some mini stands like these from Gatorworks (GFWSPK0250).
 
UPDATE:

I did find a factory service location for RCF in the USA, and sent my NX12SMA off to them today. It’s a non-warranty repair, as I bought it 7-8 years ago, so it’ll likely not be cheap. But being as these are now $2000 speakers, it would be worth having it back in fighting shape. It was already $97 just to ship it from Texas to NJ, so we’ll see what repair and return shipping will cost once they have it in their shop.

I still have an eye on other options, but thought I would update my previous statement on not being able to find a repair facility for RCF in the US. Should you need their help, contact them at:

RCF USA Inc
732-902-6100
service@rcf-usa.com
110 Talmadge Rd
Edison, NJ 08817

I’ll post the result of their testing/repair cost, and how it performs on return if the repair is made. At the very least, all emails were promptly replied to and the service technician named Mike was helpful. This is a colossal step up from my experience with Atomic to this point.
 
@Rick,

If you have not yet tried either the QSC CP8 or CP12, this might be an affordable solution instead of spending inordinate cash on XiTone or Atomics, and need wait for them while build production catches up. The CP series is IMHO, a better solution compared to its higher-priced cousin, the K series. Customer reviews of the K series have recently been on a downturn because of wonky circuit protection systems shutting the speakers down.

By comparison, the CP series has fewer electronic components that could go wrong and have an "easier to work with" interface than the K series. They have clear, flat response that does not require EQing (unless perhaps you have a sound tech that does that sort of thing). I personally recently upgraded my HeadRush FRFR108s to QSC CP8's and am enjoying them thus far.

Each weighs in at 21 lbs, and sits atop my speaker stands nicely. They have 6 separate circuit modes that can be used for an array of venues, including sound reinforcement, reinforcement with an external sub, DJ, DJ with a sub, floor monitor, and speech. The floor monitor setting takes the guesswork out of EQ tweaks...the setting does it for you once you select it.

One thing to note is that the flat response is a benefit, rather than a detriment to your gear. It took me a couple hours to tweak my presets slightly to adapt to the new speakers, and I'd safely say I need to spend several more hours with them to fully appreciate what they can do.

Because they don't cost as much compared to other higher-end speakers, they won't do as much damage to your finances. A good question to ask yourself is, why spend good money on something that has a long advance wait time, that may not be as reliable, or may be harder to offload if you still desire something of lighter weight or higher quality?
 
@Rick,

If you have not yet tried either the QSC CP8 or CP12, this might be an affordable solution instead of spending inordinate cash on XiTone or Atomics, and need wait for them while build production catches up. The CP series is IMHO, a better solution compared to its higher-priced cousin, the K series. Customer reviews of the K series have recently been on a downturn because of wonky circuit protection systems shutting the speakers down.

By comparison, the CP series has fewer electronic components that could go wrong and have an "easier to work with" interface than the K series. They have clear, flat response that does not require EQing (unless perhaps you have a sound tech that does that sort of thing). I personally recently upgraded my HeadRush FRFR108s to QSC CP8's and am enjoying them thus far.

Each weighs in at 21 lbs, and sits atop my speaker stands nicely. They have 6 separate circuit modes that can be used for an array of venues, including sound reinforcement, reinforcement with an external sub, DJ, DJ with a sub, floor monitor, and speech. The floor monitor setting takes the guesswork out of EQ tweaks...the setting does it for you once you select it.

One thing to note is that the flat response is a benefit, rather than a detriment to your gear. It took me a couple hours to tweak my presets slightly to adapt to the new speakers, and I'd safely say I need to spend several more hours with them to fully appreciate what they can do.

Because they don't cost as much compared to other higher-end speakers, they won't do as much damage to your finances. A good question to ask yourself is, why spend good money on something that has a long advance wait time, that may not be as reliable, or may be harder to offload if you still desire something of lighter weight or higher quality?
Thanks for the info and recommendation, Bob. I appreciate the insights. On the CLR and RCF speakers, I already have one of each which are (after years of gigging use) somewhat misbehaving these days. I do like QSC gear, so you give me another speaker system to look into, should my repair efforts not pan out.

I may just sell the Neo CLR, even though it sounds great when its working right. Unfortunately, I don’t know when that odd fizzy noise is going to drop in so I can’t really gig it that way.

I‘ll give the CP series a look and see what they offer. Thanks again!
 
York Audio was talking about doing some small passive ones maybe powered , I would totally be interested in that based on my experience with his Irs and presets
But I suspect that product may take a while until it is ready for purchase
But ya if anyone can make a small compact killer FRFR I think it’s Justin
 
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