What is feel anyway?

Joshuacwhalen

Joshuacwhalen

New Member
I’m the proud owner of a new FM9! The effects in this thing is absolutely bonkers. I’ve had a QC the past year I’ve been using. Always been underwhelmed with the effects and selection but love the amp sound and feel. Played the FM today to compare and FM did not feel the same!

I then went to experiment 4CM into my Hot Rod Deluxe. The amp and the FM felt the same. So neither fractal or the amp felt like the QC. I’m going to admit I don’t think I know what the hell feel even is or what it means 🤣 I know the QC has a chewy feeling thing to it I’ve grown to like, but now I’m speculating that it may just be completely down to the inherent EQ Curve of the unit itself?

I’d be super interested in hearing opinions on this. I have to pick between QC and FM. The effects on the FM are everything I’ve been missing from QC, but the mystique around “feel and authenticity” has me worried I’ll make the wrong choice.

I miss the days you had two options of amp at the local guitar store. You picked one made music and never new anything different!
 
Have you tried different IR's in the speaker cab? That has a huge impact on the EQ curve and "feel." Also, the speaker drive and thump in the Amp block speaker tab can really help the feel.
 
Joshuacwhalen said:
I’m the proud owner of a new FM9! The effects in this thing is absolutely bonkers. I’ve had a QC the past year I’ve been using. Always been underwhelmed with the effects and selection but love the amp sound and feel. Played the FM today to compare and FM did not feel the same!

I then went to experiment 4CM into my Hot Rod Deluxe. The amp and the FM felt the same. So neither fractal or the amp felt like the QC. I’m going to admit I don’t think I know what the hell feel even is or what it means 🤣 I know the QC has a chewy feeling thing to it I’ve grown to like, but now I’m speculating that it may just be completely down to the inherent EQ Curve of the unit itself?

I’d be super interested in hearing opinions on this. I have to pick between QC and FM. The effects on the FM are everything I’ve been missing from QC, but the mystique around “feel and authenticity” has me worried I’ll make the wrong choice.

I miss the days you had two options of amp at the local guitar store. You picked one made music and never new anything different!
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While the actual modeling code makes a difference, physics play a big part in the feel of the guitar, especially when playing rock or the blues.

The speaker has to move enough air to shake the guitar's body and strings. Once that starts happening the guitar will come alive. Without that volume, you might as well not have a speaker connected because that feedback cycle of the guitar -> amp -> speaker is broken. The same problem occurs when using headphones, a direct box, or an attenuator; The amp might be screaming but it's not moving air.

Run your rig at 85-90 dB, basically a reasonable stage volume, and see how it "feels". The Speaker and Dynamics tabs in the Amp block contain a number of parameters that will affect "feel" too, but again, you need volume to make them really shine.
 
Volume was never a problem with QC. I spend a lot of time playing low volumes. Half the time I’m on stage is in theaters that require low stage volume I’m gonna dive into those deep parameters on the cab blocks!
 
Maybe try turning up Sag in the Amp block. That might make the amps respond a bit more lazily. The note attack is a big part of the feel.
 
mr_fender said:
Maybe try turning up Sag in the Amp block. That might make the amps respond a bit more lazily. The note attack is a big part of the feel.
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Okay awesome I’ll try that! Ya that is kinda sounding like what I’m feeling. It’s like playing a keyboard with a software instrument. It’s like the sound and attack are instantaneous. It feels almost slippery and surreal. That’s what’s throwing me off. Maybe it’s too perfect? Haha
 
My experience with stock Neural models is that they tend to be quite compressed and have a lot of harmonics (extra overdrive). Try backing off on the gain in the QC, or add some gain to FM9 models, when comparing. I use both FAS and Neural models in my home-studio. They are different for sure. I love both though.
 
EQ, volume, dynamics, compression. All these are directly correlated with ‘feel’. They affect how we play from the beginning of the pick attack, to the sag/bloom, to note decay.

I have found these things help me with feel

  • Creating headroom for dynamics makes a big difference (smart use of compression). I miss the amp’s input dynamics setting on the FM9 (AxeFx 3 has this). Compressors help here… just don’t overdo it
  • Low-mids bring in the chunkiness so finding a way to add body without cluttering your low end is important
  • Gain balance is obvious. Don’t oversaturate. Preamp sag can also help but you can sacrifice ‘attack’ for some amp models
 
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NattyBar said:
EQ, volume, dynamics, compression. All these are directly correlated with ‘feel’. They affect how we play from the beginning of the pick attack, to the sag/bloom, to note decay.

I have found these things help me with feel

  • Creating headroom for dynamics makes a big difference (smart use of compression). I miss the amp’s input dynamics setting on the FM9 (AxeFx 3 has this). Compressors help here… just don’t overdo it
  • Low-mids bring in the chunkiness so finding a way to add body without cluttering your low end is important
  • Gain balance is obvious. Don’t oversaturate. Preamp sag can also help but you can sacrifice ‘attack’ for some amp models
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I think the low mids thing is worth a look! I run my modelers in the power amp in on a Hotrod Deluxe with the speaker emulation off. I think with more experimenting the biggest difference is the QC has this low end thud I can feel in the cab that’s super satisfying! It’s Thuddy but really open in the mid range. I’m using the Deluxe Reverb models stock on both devices. I feel I'm getting really close. Just need to dial in that Thud in on the FM and I think I'm there enough!
 
I did some work in the output EQ and got it so close it doesn’t matter anymore! I tiny boost at 125Hz a cut at 250Hz and a slight boost from 2-8k. Just spent two hours playing with effects. This thing just blows me away. The effects are so unreal!
 
Joshuacwhalen said:
I spend a lot of time playing low volumes. Half the time I’m on stage is in theaters that require low stage volume
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The thing about the physics, moving air via the amplifier's output shaking the speaker, is that as you get closer to the speaker it takes less power. A 12" speaker at 5' from a cranked 20W combo puts out 95-100 dB from my experience, and compares to a 10" or 8" speaker at closer distances; The formulas can tell us exactly how it works because it's physics. I can easily imagine a small vocal monitor attached to a microphone stand immediately in front of the guitar would have plenty of air moving to shake a guitar but not project into the audience, and definitely wouldn't be heard over the FOH system. An 8" or 10" floor monitor at your feet would work as well too. It'd be easy to test in a music store that carries a variety of monitors.
 
Joshuacwhalen said:
I did some work in the output EQ and got it so close it doesn’t matter anymore! I tiny boost at 125Hz a cut at 250Hz and a slight boost from 2-8k. Just spent two hours playing with effects. This thing just blows me away. The effects are so unreal!
Click to expand...
The QC models all have a bit of scoop (boosted bass/treble) in my tests that the real amps do not have. I'm guessing they did this to counter Fletcher-Munson as most people listen at lower volumes.
 
FractalAudio said:
The QC models all have a bit of scoop (boosted bass/treble) in my tests that the real amps do not have. I'm guessing they did this to counter Fletcher-Munson as most people listen at lower volumes.
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Thanks so much for the response! I wondered if it was something specific with the unit as all models had that same kind of thing. I ended up trying the EQ adjustments and no adjustments with the band, and no adjustments fit in the mix easier! My bias to the other EQ curve turns out was just from being used to it from a year! After a couple days doing everything with my FM9 I was so happy with all the sounds! So glad I got on the list and picked one up!
 
FractalAudio said:
The QC models all have a bit of scoop (boosted bass/treble) in my tests that the real amps do not have. I'm guessing they did this to counter Fletcher-Munson as most people listen at lower volumes.
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I've noticed it from playing it.

And the Line 6 Helix engineer guy agrees too. I think this was regarding their plugins, but the QC models have the same vibe IME:
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When trying to match AXE II amps to the real deal A/B in my studio, I either had to massively cut the mids in the real amp or massively boost them in the Fractal model. Did this on multiple amps.
 
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