What a Difference

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Curious how did you compare the settings?

If you created a preset on Axe Fx III and migrated it to the FM9, check the IR resolution in the Cab block.

From my past experience, the quality doesn't import the same as the source.
 
As for the attack, yes! They are different, I compensate in the speaker tab - feedback - I set 2.00, this at least somehow gives a feeling of the feeling of the game. They are different in the sound of the attack, absolutely correctly said. The same preset, the same guitar! On FM 3 it will sound sluggish ... that's for sure!
 
aas983 said:
As for the attack, yes! They are different, I compensate in the speaker tab - feedback - I set 2.00, this at least somehow gives a feeling of the feeling of the game. They are different in the sound of the attack, absolutely correctly said. The same preset, the same guitar! On FM 3 it will sound sluggish ... that's for sure!
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For those who wanted clips, the video link in this thread demonstrates what I'm hearing at home. Jump between the 1:33 and 2:00 marks. Both sound great, but different; especially in the attack.

I am NOT implying that this is any sort of "proof" of anything whatsoever (especially considering firmware). It's ONLY to illustrate the difference in character that I'm hearing with III/25.00 vs FM9/7.00. Many people won't notice the difference (especially with enough time inserted between the two video sections). Others will. YMMV.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fm9-fw-7-way-better.205188/post-2559612
 
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steadystate said:
For those who wanted clips, the video link in this thread demonstrates what I'm hearing at home. Jump between the 1:33 and 2:00 marks. Both sound great, but different; especially in the attack.

I am NOT implying that this is any sort of "proof" of anything whatsoever (especially considering firmware). It's ONLY to illustrate the difference in character that I'm hearing with III/25.00 vs FM9/7.00. Many people won't notice the difference (especially with enough time inserted between the two video sections). Others will. YMMV.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/fm9-fw-7-way-better.205188/post-2559612
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In this video it kind of sounds like the FM3 has blurrier, and more lower mids. It is not as clear overall, especially in the lower mids.

I wonder what could cause the difference. It is the difference in the technology of the units, or something like the FM3 not running Ultra-Res cabs, or something.
 
Shask said:
In this video it kind of sounds like the FM3 has blurrier, and more lower mids. It is not as clear overall, especially in the lower mids.

I wonder what could cause the difference. It is the difference in the technology of the units, or something like the FM3 not running Ultra-Res cabs, or something.
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In the video, there is a greater difference in the sustain portion of the playing between units than I am experiencing. But the difference in attack and "separation" remains. Adjusting parameters on the FM9 brings it a bit more in line, but the III seems simply exceptional; total clarity in the face of high gain. Awesome. I've been comparing it to other products, and it stands alone.
 
steadystate said:
Of course they aren't. They use entirely different firmware. My III is on firmware 25.00 and my FM9 is on firmware 7.00. They were concurrent. As the III has had four firmware updates since my current version, I would expect the gap to be widened, not narrowed. Sorry that my observations don't sit well with you, but there is a difference in tone and feel, as would be expected from the difference in resources.
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kind of an older thread but I saw this when I was searching. I don't think you can really compare fw25 and fw7 or any of the firmware versions directly. Obviously the AXE3 gets done first then errors are fixed and by the time it rolls out to the fm9 and fm3, other things may get thrown in.
Having said that, I made myself a crappy spreadsheet to track certain things and for example the JS410 Lead Green model was introduced to the AXE3 on version fw23 back in November 2023. That same amp model was added to firmware 8 on the FM3 in April 2024...and on the FM9 in version 6 in February 2024. That is just an example but in this case FW23 matched closer to FM9 v6 for just that amp model.
A more recent comparison is the addition of the MarkV red, on the axe3 it was fw24, and on the fm3 it was version 8, and on the fm9 it was version 6.
However Cygnus x-3 was introduced on axefx 25, fm3 v8 and fm9 v6. It seems to be more complicated than just looking at release dates or versions.
The Revv Gen was yet another example of the difference in timings as it came out on the fm9 in version 5, then on the fm3 in version 7 and on fw22 for the AXE.
Anyway, overall I guess you can never really compare firmware versions since they all seem to be slightly different.
attached is my fisher price spreadsheet. It wouldn't allow me to the attach the excel format but the pdf is searchable.
 

Attachments

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DLC86 said:
I thoroughly compared the two when I receveid my fm9 (almost 2 years ago) and honestly didn't notice any difference in tones at the time, the only measurable difference was the aliasing level but definitely not hearable in normal conditions... and in fact I decided to sell the axe in the end.
Maybe something changed during these last 2 years?
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Same here, and I made the comparison just recently at gigging volume through the PA of the band. I could not notice any difference.

I wonder how much about what one hears is influenced by what one expects to hear. In Steadystates words: "there is a difference in tone and feel, as would be expected from the difference in resources". It would be interesting to do blind tests in general comparisons. Just recently learned that 90% can't even distinguish a white from a red wine in a blind test. Astonishing.

Well, and the complexity in the generation of sounds is so huge that in the end it would be a surprise if two different setups sound the same in any aspect. In the end its about what you like and are convinced of, cause that informs your playing and by that in the end also reaches the audience.
 
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macky7tyseven said:
Same here, and I made the comparison just recently at gigging volume through the PA of the band. I could not notice any difference.

I wonder how much about what one hears is influenced by what one expects to hear. It would be interesting to do blind tests for general comparisons. Just recently learned that in a blind test, 90% can't really distinguish a white from a red wine even.
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depends a lot on if you're using cab's smoothing feature or not... If you don't, they sound identical
 
unix-guy said:
Curious how did you compare the settings?

If you created a preset on Axe Fx III and migrated it to the FM9, check the IR resolution in the Cab block.

From my past experience, the quality doesn't import the same as the source.
Click to expand...
Thank you for this, master of RTFM!
I wasn't aware of it - probably due to RTFM gaps on my side.

I assume this means that with the migration of a preset to the FM9, the IR length in the cab block changes from ultra-res to standard. So I have to change that back in every preset as long as CPU allows it (it always does in my case). I thought the only thing I had to consider was checking and aligning the available amps and cab blocks to what FM9 allows and adjusting the pedal slots in the controllers.

Is there something like a checklist for the migration of presets from III to FM9 (and other migrations)?
 
macky7tyseven said:
Thank you for this, master of RTFM!
I wasn't aware of it - probably due to RTFM gaps on my side.

I assume this means that with the migration of a preset to the FM9, the IR length in the cab block changes from ultra-res to standard. So I have to change that back in every preset as long as CPU allows it (it always does in my case). I thought the only thing I had to consider was checking and aligning the available amps and cab blocks to what FM9 allows and adjusting the pedal slots in the controllers.

Is there something like a checklist for the migration of presets from III to FM9 (and other migrations)?
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As far as I am aware, IR Resolution and maybe Reverb Quality. I think @Moke mentioned that in another thread, but I haven't validated.

If you always create presets on FM9 and then migrate to Axe Fx III, you shouldn't have to worry about settings.
 
rzjd said:
kind of an older thread but I saw this when I was searching. I don't think you can really compare fw25 and fw7 or any of the firmware versions directly. Obviously the AXE3 gets done first then errors are fixed and by the time it rolls out to the fm9 and fm3, other things may get thrown in.
Having said that, I made myself a crappy spreadsheet to track certain things and for example the JS410 Lead Green model was introduced to the AXE3 on version fw23 back in November 2023. That same amp model was added to firmware 8 on the FM3 in April 2024...and on the FM9 in version 6 in February 2024. That is just an example but in this case FW23 matched closer to FM9 v6 for just that amp model.
A more recent comparison is the addition of the MarkV red, on the axe3 it was fw24, and on the fm3 it was version 8, and on the fm9 it was version 6.
However Cygnus x-3 was introduced on axefx 25, fm3 v8 and fm9 v6. It seems to be more complicated than just looking at release dates or versions.
The Revv Gen was yet another example of the difference in timings as it came out on the fm9 in version 5, then on the fm3 in version 7 and on fw22 for the AXE.
Anyway, overall I guess you can never really compare firmware versions since they all seem to be slightly different.
attached is my fisher price spreadsheet. It wouldn't allow me to the attach the excel format but the pdf is searchable.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you need to really base it on the Release Notes from each firmware.

And so far, you would be hard pressed to find any given point where they are exactly aligned between the Axe Fx III and FM9, or FM3.
 
unix-guy said:
Yeah, you need to really base it on the Release Notes from each firmware.

And so far, you would be hard pressed to find any given point where they are exactly aligned between the Axe Fx III and FM9, or FM3.
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Exactly. One can only go by the firmware available at any given time. I'm certain the FM9 will continue to improve along with the III. These are simply my observations at the time of writing. And, honestly, at my last gig I was smiling at how amazing the FM9 sounds. It's no criticism to say that the III has (or, at least, had) an edge.

Bottom line, once FM9 FW 8 is released, this thread is totally meaningless. Fractal can lock or delete it as far as I'm concerned.
 
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I have both units and have had both at same time off and on for last couple years. Both awesome. I don't hear a difference that is readily apparent to me either way. I mostly use a core group of presets and scenes setup the same way for some time and know those well. Am on FW26 on Axe Fx3 and FW7 on FM9. I do have to adjust Unit OUT levels to match as they are different in my experience. I do not adjust the levels on same presets.
They are different units inherently aside from FW so if you hear a difference and it is something you feel you need to adjust for in some way I do not doubt you, but I would have to isolate and focus on some specific element in detail to probably discern anything.
Just my opinion FWIW.
 
steadystate said:
Exactly. One can only go by the firmware available at any given time. I'm certain the FM9 will continue to improve along with the III. These are simply my observations at the time of writing. And, honestly, at my last gig I was smiling at how amazing the FM9 sounds. It's no criticism to say that the III has (or, at least, had) an edge.

Bottom line, once FM9 FW 8 is released, this thread is totally meaningless. Fractal can lock or delete it as far as I'm concerned.
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It won't... Smoothing still misses ;)
 
I've said this from the get-go (when the FM3 was released): Identical presets do not and cannot sound the same between units. There are hardware, FW, and SW reasons for this. I do not believe the comparison chart on the Wiki that lists the differences is 100% accurate. At one point, I made a list of all the actual differences between the III and the FM3 in a thread (none of which were or are yet on the Wiki). For instance the FM3 doesn't have the amp block's compression, nor does it have the secret sauce hardware on the input. It's also missing the Input gain in I/O settings. Since I don't own an FM9, I haven't been able to directly compare, so I couldn't tell you; you'd have to go screen by screen, block by block, then parameter by parameter like I did with the III and FM3 to be sure.

In any case, the floor units will get you 98% there, but, as I've said before, you won't be able to get an identical sound between the III and the floor units, even with the "same" settings. 98% is good enough for me, honestly :D
 
Ugly Bunny said:
I've said this from the get-go (when the FM3 was released): Identical presets do not and cannot sound the same between units. There are hardware, FW, and SW reasons for this. I do not believe the comparison chart on the Wiki that lists the differences is 100% accurate. At one point, I made a list of all the actual differences between the III and the FM3 in a thread (none of which were or are yet on the Wiki). For instance the FM3 doesn't have the amp block's compression, nor does it have the secret sauce hardware on the input. It's also missing the Input gain in I/O settings. Since I don't own an FM9, I haven't been able to directly compare, so I couldn't tell you; you'd have to go screen by screen, block by block, then parameter by parameter like I did with the III and FM3 to be sure.

In any case, the floor units will get you 98% there, but, as I've said before, you won't be able to get an identical sound between the III and the floor units, even with the "same" settings. 98% is good enough for me, honestly :D
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What's that about amp block compression?
 
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