Whammy

[DJD100]

Thanks Bakerman, worked perfect on my Ultra, cool!

Yes, there are more options with the Ultra (advanced whammy mode, 2 pitch blocks possibly useful for certain things) but the examples in this thread could be done with a standard.

 

[YStSnapper]

Something like this? http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28651/axefx/slowerdive.mp3 That's a slow trapezoid LFO (1B) on pitch with duty & B phase set to make it begin at 100% and drop, run triggered by the External. It will eventually restart if you keep the IA on but you have about 12-14 seconds before that happens. As in the clip it can be stopped & immediately restarted at normal pitch with no wait time.

Hey, Bakerman. So I figured out how to set the parameter modifiers for Control and Bypass Mode, but my pitch drop cycles after only 1 second or so. How to I get these 12-14 second drops that you mentioned? I have my modifiers with the LFO 1B.

 

[Bakerman]

If you have Axe-Edit (or any SysEx utility plus a MIDI interface) check out the preset I posted on page 3. It should load fine on a standard. The whammy mode (+/- 1 octave), control modifier, LFO are set up in a way that keeps it at the full shift amount longer (relative to dive time) than what's possible if you used a 1-direction whammy mode and ctrl. modifier spanning a full diagonal path. You have to use a slower LFO rate to get a certain dive speed, but the benefit is that longer time at the end pitch.

 

[YStSnapper]

If you have Axe-Edit (or any SysEx utility plus a MIDI interface) check out the preset I posted on page 3. It should load fine on a standard. The whammy mode (+/- 1 octave), control modifier, LFO are set up in a way that keeps it at the full shift amount longer (relative to dive time) than what's possible if you used a 1-direction whammy mode and ctrl. modifier spanning a full diagonal path. You have to use a slower LFO rate to get a certain dive speed, but the benefit is that longer time at the end pitch.

I use Axe-Edit. I downloaded the preset that you posted, but when I load it from my presets folder on my computer, nothing happens. It seems as if it's an empty file. I tried opening it the Axe-Manage and it says "Wrong asset type for current model config!"

Regardless, I'm really not following the directions you're explaining. I was able to get the settings that you showed in your screenshot (http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2005/autodive.jpg). Is there any chance you could get another screen shot of what I'm missing?

 

[Bakerman]

That's odd that it won't work--I just downloaded it and could open w/ config set to standard or Ultra using Recall: Import from preset file. Here's a shot of everything including revised pitch settings. http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4700/slowdive.jpg

 

[YStSnapper]

That's odd that it won't work--I just downloaded it and could open w/ config set to standard or Ultra using Recall: Import from preset file. Here's a shot of everything including revised pitch settings. http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4700/slowdive.jpg

That picture helped a LOT! I was unaware that you were also referring to the external "controller" with the Trapezoid LFO. That's what was tripping me up. Granted, in Axe-Edit, I set all three source controllers as "LFO 1B", so the pitch shift was just slowly going back and forth, up and down. I assume that, since you have your bottom two screen shots set for "Extern 2" controller source that you have a MIDI footswitch to activate this. Is this correct?

I just recently got the Behringer FCB1010, but was planning to hold off on learning how to use it with the Axe until I fully had the Axe-FX down pat.

 

[Bakerman]

Switch connected to an Axe pedal port actually, but it could just as easily be a CC. I use Ext. 3-8 with CCs.

You can toggle any external on the Axe (except if set to Pedal 1 or Pedal 2) at the I/O: MIDI page by setting its init. value to 0% or 100%.

 

[klaushouz]

Hi Bakerman , I had a similar effect on my older Digitech 2120 but no luck so far on the Axe 2. Any chance of this preset for the Axe II? Still trying to wrap my head around this. Even a screen shot would help. Thanks K

 

[Bakerman]

The screenshot in post #45 has about as much relevant info as I can give for the II. A couple more things:

1. The II modifier system can't get the same shape as that pitch control modifier. The pitch change would have to occur over the 0-50% range and there's no reason for a down/up mode; use a down mode w/ start/mid/end at 100/0/0.

2. I don't know exactly which LFO settings are going to work, since Yek mentioned the dive began midway with identical settings.

 

[YStSnapper]

Switch connected to an Axe pedal port actually, but it could just as easily be a CC. I use Ext. 3-8 with CCs.

You can toggle any external on the Axe (except if set to Pedal 1 or Pedal 2) at the I/O: MIDI page by setting its init. value to 0% or 100%.

Bakerman,

I never got to thank you for all of the help on this thread. I had gotten the pitch rises and falls to work mainly due to you, so thanks.

I had another question, however. I've gotten the long pitch drops/rises/falls/etc. working based off of your screenshot ( http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4700/slowdive.jpg ). However, I used LFO 1B for all three controllers, as I hadn't yet configured my FCB Midi Controller. Now that I have my Midi board set up, I notice that these patches work, BUT, the pitch shifts don't start based off of when I switch to the desired patch. I could choose the pitch drop patch, and it will enter the drop 3/4 of the way through the cycle.

Hoping you could dig me out of a hole again and tell me why this is happening. I'm thinking maybe it's because all three controllers are run by the LFO, but I want to be able to switch to these patches and obviously have them start from the beginning of a cycle. I did also go and change the Bypass Mode and LFO sources to Extern 1, and changed my midi CC to activate Extern 1 - but that didn't help.

Thanks again! My rig is finally show ready, I'd just like to perfect these drops!

 

[Bakerman]

If you don't stop & start the LFO somehow, its position will be random because it doesn't reset at preset changes. AFAIK there are 2 options here:

A. Have it stopped via run modifier in the previous preset,

or

B. Use run modifier to briefly stop & start it after switching to the dive preset. If you knew a switch set up as Ext 1 would be off in the previous preset, stored it on for the dive preset and assigned it (in dive preset only) to LFO run with some damping, I think that would cause it to stop then start as the dot moves toward the LFO run zone.

Some controllers could probably do method B by sending an off & on command with a short pause between, after the preset change. Then you wouldn't have to worry about anything in the previous preset. I don't know if that's possible with the FCB.

 

[YStSnapper]

If you don't stop & start the LFO somehow, its position will be random because it doesn't reset at preset changes. AFAIK there are 2 options here:

A. Have it stopped via run modifier in the previous preset,

or

B. Use run modifier to briefly stop & start it after switching to the dive preset. If you knew a switch set up as Ext 1 would be off in the previous preset, stored it on for the dive preset and assigned it (in dive preset only) to LFO run with some damping, I think that would cause it to stop then start as the dot moves toward the LFO run zone.

Hm, Okay I will try these tonight. The issue with option A is that I have some parts where I will divebomb 2 octaves, and then my next patch chosen will START down 2 octaves and rise to normal, as to create a drop and rise effect.

I see on the fractal wiki it says "When using a MIDI CC via an external controller to toggle RUN, a value of 70 or higher will START the LFO, and a value of 57 or lower will STOP the LFO". I have my patch setup so the patch itself has the pitch modifier enabled always. I don't actually send a CC to unbypass the pitch pedal, but rather just send the PC to go to the patch itself. So is this method saying to send a CC 54 (pitch on the Standard) with value of <57 and then >70 to reset the cycle? If so, that seems like a lot of button pushing for a live show and smooth transition.

 

[YStSnapper]

If you don't stop & start the LFO somehow, its position will be random because it doesn't reset at preset changes. AFAIK there are 2 options here:

A. Have it stopped via run modifier in the previous preset,

I just uploaded a screenshot of my setup here:
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6508/pitchrisescreen.png

I looked for the "Run Modifier", but couldn't really find that. I'll note that I had to make the Phase and Duty 77.2 and 1, which got rid of the LONG delay in my patch before the pitch shifts would start within the LFO cycle. Also, the controller modifier I recently changed to "Fast Auto Engage" to see if that did it. I thought I changed the other two modifiers to "Fast", but it must not have taken.

A quick step-by-step would be very much appreciated.

 

[Bakerman]

The run modifier is the top thing you drew a red line to in that image. If you set source to one of the 8 Externals you can start/stop it with that External's CC# (found at I/O: CTRL page).

Here's a group of presets using a slightly different approach, sequencer acting as a toggle that resets the LFO when switching to the return preset.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28651/axefx/dive_and_return.zip

Select "Dive Setup" first. The only important setting in this one is the LFO run modifier, which keeps LFO1 stopped so it begins at 0 when you select "Slow Dive new". Do that, and when it reaches -2 octaves you can switch to "Slow Return" and it will return. Once it's back at 0 you have about 20 seconds before it will drop back down, so you do need to switch to another preset before then, or do something else like set pitch mix to 0% with an External.

 

[YStSnapper]

The run modifier is the top thing you drew a red line to in that image. If you set source to one of the 8 Externals you can start/stop it with that External's CC# (found at I/O: CTRL page).

Here's a group of presets using a slightly different approach, sequencer acting as a toggle that resets the LFO when switching to the return preset.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28651/axefx/dive_and_return.zip

Select "Dive Setup" first. The only important setting in this one is the LFO run modifier, which keeps LFO1 stopped so it begins at 0 when you select "Slow Dive new". Do that, and when it reaches -2 octaves you can switch to "Slow Return" and it will return. Once it's back at 0 you have about 20 seconds before it will drop back down, so you do need to switch to another preset before then, or do something else like set pitch mix to 0% with an External.

Hm, your patches aren't functioning like you say they should. The "Slow Dive new" patch starts to drop in pitch, but then jumps up in less than a second, starts to go back down again, jumps up again, etc. And the "Slow Return" patch does the same, only it starts at -2 octaves, starts to come up, but quickly falls back down.

The one thing I got out of these patches was to set the control modifier for my NORMAL tone patch to 0/0/0. I'm going to stick with the LFO 1B on all three modifiers for now, as the Sequencer seemed to do weird things with my Standard. This will HOPEFULLY make it so that when I start my pitch drop patch, coming from my normal tone patch, it will start at the very beginning. However, when I switch from there directly to my pitch return patch, I still need to start it EXACTLY when the pitch drop LFO resets...

Any other ideas?

 

[Bakerman]

Checking these w/ Axe-Edit in standard mode I realized what's causing the LFO reset--the standard sequencer doesn't have a run control so it can't be stopped. In that case, set steps 2-8 to the same value as 1 (100% for dive, 0% for return) and store the presets that way.

 

[YStSnapper]

Checking these w/ Axe-Edit in standard mode I realized what's causing the LFO reset--the standard sequencer doesn't have a run control so it can't be stopped. In that case, set steps 2-8 to the same value as 1 (100% for dive, 0% for return) and store the presets that way.

Okay, I noticed those 8 steps this morning and tried to sequentially step them from 100 to 0 and that didn't work, so I'll try out your idea tonight after work. If that doesn't work, I'll try and export the patches I use for you to take a look at. *fingers crossed*

 

[YStSnapper]

Checking these w/ Axe-Edit in standard mode I realized what's causing the LFO reset--the standard sequencer doesn't have a run control so it can't be stopped. In that case, set steps 2-8 to the same value as 1 (100% for dive, 0% for return) and store the presets that way.

Bakerman,

This seemed to work to get the pitch drops consistent, but it still wasn't starting right when I started my patch. Also, I noticed that my 10.5 second pitch rise patch was more like 5 seconds long using the sequencer.

Here are the patches that I am configuring for live. There is my normal tone patch, pitch rise, and then pitch fall. It should go from the normal patch, up two octaves, and then fall back to normal. They're some high-gain patches FYI, but if you could take a look at these it would be much appreciated.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6p1brfmrfscezu7/Pitch%20Shifting.zip

 

[Bakerman]

Having the LFO as its own run source isn't really helping anything, because it resets while moving instead of reaching target pitch & holding. There's also nothing to reset the LFO there, which is what the sequencer being fixed at 100% then 0% is supposed to do.

See if these get what you want pitch-wise. They're based on what I posted already, modified to rise 2 octaves in about 10 seconds and return in about 5, plus the updated sequencer values.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28651/axefx/rise_and_fall.zip

 

[YStSnapper]

Having the LFO as its own run source isn't really helping anything, because it resets while moving instead of reaching target pitch & holding. There's also nothing to reset the LFO there, which is what the sequencer being fixed at 100% then 0% is supposed to do.

See if these get what you want pitch-wise. They're based on what I posted already, modified to rise 2 octaves in about 10 seconds and return in about 5, plus the updated sequencer values.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28651/axefx/rise_and_fall.zip

Bakerman, you may have just done it again

The patches you just posted should be great for what I want to do live. Even if they're limited by a max rise/fall time of 8 seconds, the fact that it will then dwell at the end stage is perfectly convenient.

However, I tried fiddling my settings around on my patches before work this morning and couldn't get the same results. I must have missed something in my rush. Will get back at it tonight, and I'm confident that I should be able to mimic your methods.

Will let you know when I'm there. Thanks again!