Weird Metallic Sound - FBT Verve 12ma issue?

[gendefect]

I've recently been noticing a specific problem with the tone I'm getting from my Axe system--specifically, a kind of metallic-y sound that sits on the top of the notes I play. No matter what I do, I can't seem to get rid of it.

Here's some background info:

For the most part, I play the Axe through the following setup

Axe-->Presonus Firestudio Project --> Logic Pro-->Dynaudio BM5As

When I do that, everything sounds great.

Recently, I purchased an FBT Verve 12ma and have started playing more through that, just going direct from the Axe to the FBT. When I started playing through the FBT, I noticed this metallic noise on a number of my patches. I thought that I had those patches set up badly, so I started working with them, trying to fix them, but never with any success. So tonight I did a test.

I put an SM57 right in front of the FBT and recorded the left channel of the Axe being played out of that, while running the identical right channel through the the Presonus, direct into Logic. I recorded both at the same time. Listening back, I can hear that metallic kind of sound on the track that mic'd the FBT, but not on the track that was recorded direct. I did this comparison monitoring with the Dynaudio monitors.

If anyone has any advice or any sense of what the problem could be, I would very much appreciate hearing whatever thoughts you might be able to share. I feel like if I can get just get this problem worked out, I'll be in a position to start really using and taking full advantage of what the Axe has to offer.

 

[yek]

Re: Weird Metallic Sound

I'm joining your club. Heard exactly the same thing at rehearsal yesterday through my FBT.
Must be something with the FBT, @#$%.,

 

[gendefect]

Re: Weird Metallic Sound

I'm joining your club. Heard exactly the same thing at rehearsal yesterday through my FBT.
Must be something with the FBT, @#$%.,

Really? Interesting. Did you just get your FBT recently? Or have you had it for a while? Is it something you've just started noticing, or noticed the entirety of the time you've had the FBT?

So many people here whose opinions I respect laud the FBT, so I would be kind of shocked if there were an inherent problem with its way of dealing with the Axe that is as clearly heard and demonstrated as this is. But I suppose it's possible. Or maybe both of our FBTs are broken in the same way?

Does anyone else have any experience with this?

 

[yek]

Re: Weird Metallic Sound

Had no problem with it before. Just something I noticed yesterday.
Seemed like there's was some hi-freq clipping when hitting the strings hard.
I have to look into it more.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Re: Weird Metallic Sound

Listening back, I can hear that metallic kind of sound on the track that mic'd the FBT, but not on the track that was recorded direct.

Thread moved to the appropriate forum. Your procedure has clearly established that the Axe-Fx is not producing the problem noise.

 

[guitarnerdswe]

Sounds alot like something vibrating inside the monitor.

 

[iceman]

Computer locks up every time I click either of those recordings links so I can't comment...???

 

[gendefect]

Computer locks up every time I click either of those recordings links so I can't comment...???

Hmm. Weird. I don't know why that would be happening. Maybe try downloading the tracks directly, rather than trying to open them through your browser?

 

[Jay Mitchell]

I just listened to the clips. There's nothing wrong with the FBT. You've placed the mic too close to it, and the signal from the HF horn is being artifically exaggerated. The "metallic" sound - which is present to some extent in both clips - is fret noise. Relatively small peaks in the response of a speaker can make this noise quite annoying. Add a PEQ, set the frequency of one of filters 2-4 to about 4kHz, Q to maximum, and cut to maximum. Move the frequency around while playing, find the setting that best eliminates the noise, gradually reduce the amount of cut until the noise becomes objectionable again, and increase it slightly.

 

[gendefect]

I just listened to the clips. There's nothing wrong with the FBT. You've placed the mic too close to it, and the signal from the HF horn is being artifically exaggerated. The "metallic" sound - which is present to some extent in both clips - is fret noise. Relatively small peaks in the response of a speaker can make this noise quite annoying. Add a PEQ, set the frequency of one of filters 2-4 to about 4kHz, Q to maximum, and cut to maximum. Move the frequency around while playing, find the setting that best eliminates the noise, gradually reduce the amount of cut until the noise becomes objectionable again, and increase it slightly.

Thanks Jay. I will give your PEQ suggestions a shot.

But the sound that I hear in the recording is exactly the sound I hear with my ears, standing a reasonable distance away from the FBT. Given that it's picked up by more than just a mic placed too close, would you still recommend the PEQ fix you mentioned above as the most likely solution?

 

[Jay Mitchell]

But the sound that I hear in the recording is exactly the sound I hear with my ears, standing a reasonable distance away from the FBT.

As I pointed out, a relatively small response peak can make this sound objectionable. It's possible the FBT has such a peak. I hear no evidence of a defective speaker in your clip.

would you still recommend the PEQ fix you mentioned above as the most likely solution?

Yes.

 

[yek]

I just listened to the clips. There's nothing wrong with the FBT. You've placed the mic too close to it, and the signal from the HF horn is being artifically exaggerated. The "metallic" sound - which is present to some extent in both clips - is fret noise. Relatively small peaks in the response of a speaker can make this noise quite annoying. Add a PEQ, set the frequency of one of filters 2-4 to about 4kHz, Q to maximum, and cut to maximum. Move the frequency around while playing, find the setting that best eliminates the noise, gradually reduce the amount of cut until the noise becomes objectionable again, and increase it slightly.

I think this is exactly the issue. I didn't encounter this before, probably because I have been using a PEQ to block higher frequencies until recently. I'll experiment with the tip above.

 

[gendefect]

Yek, have you had any luck fixing the problem you were hearing?

 

[Sixstring]

I wonder if the grill is rattling on the Verve, have you tried to deaden it to see if it makes any differance?

 

[gendefect]

I wonder if the grill is rattling on the Verve, have you tried to deaden it to see if it makes any differance?

Hmm, no I haven't tried that.

However, a friend of mine was over yesterday and I was telling him about my problem. He being even more ignorant about this topic than me, looked at the speaker and said, "Is there supposed to be something in that hole on the left?" And I had no idea what the answer was. I thought it was possible that something had been there and had fallen loose or something. So I took off the grill completely. Having done so, I can say the grill is pretty well-attached and doesn't seem like it could be rattling. But maybe I'm wrong. How would you go about deadening it, exactly?

Anyway, point being, I took the grill off and it didn't seem like anything had fallen loose or anything. But I did take a couple pictures. Here they are:

Can anyone confirm that that looks right? That the hole on the left is supposed to be that way?

Sorry for such stupid questions, but I really have no idea about this stuff and I'm not sure how to diagnose or fix this problem at this point.

 

[Dpoirier]

Mine look like that too (i.e. there is nothing in the port hole).

Have you tried playing it while the grille is removed? No better way to know if the noise is caused by the grille or not...

 

[gendefect]

Have you tried playing it while the grille is removed? No better way to know if the noise is caused by the grille or not...

No, I haven't tried that. But it's a good idea. I'll give it a shot and report back. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[yek]

I can't tell if we really have the same problem. But I noticed that there's some kind of resonant shrill peak in my 12ma. Even with a PEQ that blocks above 5.5kHz. I took the grill off, doesn't help. I experimented a bit using Jay's advice, and I can decrease it at 4kHz, it seems. Have to fiddle with it more. What also helps is turning down treble on the 12ma itself.
Problem is I need to turn the volume up and I can't do that at the moment.

 

[Sixstring]

I wonder if the grill is rattling on the Verve, have you tried to deaden it to see if it makes any differance?

Hmm, no I haven't tried that.

However, a friend of mine was over yesterday and I was telling him about my problem. He being even more ignorant about this topic than me, looked at the speaker and said, "Is there supposed to be something in that hole on the left?" And I had no idea what the answer was. I thought it was possible that something had been there and had fallen loose or something. So I took off the grill completely. Having done so, I can say the grill is pretty well-attached and doesn't seem like it could be rattling. But maybe I'm wrong. How would you go about deadening it, exactly?

Anyway, point being, I took the grill off and it didn't seem like anything had fallen loose or anything.

Can anyone confirm that that looks right? That the hole on the left is supposed to be that way?

Sorry for such stupid questions, but I really have no idea about this stuff and I'm not sure how to diagnose or fix this problem at this point.

I doubt it's the grill I was just throwing out ideas for a possible trouble shoot. I gave a real close listen to my 12m's (passives) to see if I could hear the same sound and couldn't hear it. I tried different volumes and different types of presets to see if it had any effect with no differences in sound other than the presets them selves.

The fact that you can hear the noise even with the EQ rolled off down to 200 Hz rules out the HF driver and might point to something in the amp. Another thought... I would try using a different source, like your computer and play back the direct recording you made through the 12mA and see if you get the same noise? If that doesn't change I would email FBT to see if they know of any possible issues with the Verve mA series they might be able to shed some light.

 

[BBN]

I hear nothing even close to the sound that you guys are describing coming from my 12ma.
If someone wants to email me a patch, I'll load it and try it on my 12ma.
(blindbynoon@comcast.net)

Also, the hole in the front of the 12ma is a bass port....yes it's supposed to be there.

And to the person who noticed that this was the first negative posting about a 12ma, that was a good observation...and another factor I used when choosing the 12ma. If you scan this forum you will see many other FRFR cabs that have a variety of reported issues which seem to be a result of poor QC. This is the first issue I've seen reported on a Verve.