We need a BUG MANAGER

carloszeke

carloszeke

Experienced
When I began to report these bugs, my first thought was, "I wonder how many guys are experiencing these same bugs?, and if so, have they already been reported?" At the present time, I really can't read through to see if they have. It came to mind that a simple table, or an on-going list of reported bugs would be helpful, and prevent people from making duplicate reports. It would take a few seconds to scan. I have noticed a couple in the forum that I didn't bother reporting before.
1st AE bug; As long as AE is connected, whenever I change presets from the Axe front panel, the next one to come up immediately goes from the RECALL page to the EDIT page.(on the Axe front panel) It's annoying because before continuing to the next one, I have to first push RECALL. If I disconnect the USB, the problem stops happening.
2nd AE bug; Many times, when I change one effect block for another, the new block comes up bypassed.
3rd AE bug; Sometimes, after choosing a new effect, I move the cursor down to the control panel to adjust something and suddenly, the panel goes blank only to realize that an unused block is now highlighted (??) WTF? This has happened several times. (I'm a nondrinker!)

(NOT a bug)...PLEASE give us the full screen option ASAP.
 
Well there would be duplicates, tons of... that's why the bug collector is private i think...
Anyway, the 1st one is not a bug, this is the intended way AE works, controlling the frontpanel, so you should not do anything with frontpanel while AE is running.
 
The masses wouldn't understand a bug management system -- that's why it's not exposed to them. Rest assured your reports do make it back to Fractal's bug management system. They get discussed, beta team members try to reproduce things and refine the circumstances under which they occur, all in the name of making it easier for the devs to squash them and for the entire experience of using your Fractal Products improve. It's actually got a decent amount of refinement to the process now. And Matt oversees it all; he runs a pretty tight ship.
 
As mentioned by the prior 2 posters, there IS a bug manager... it's just not public.
There's a number of reasons why.

  1. many users simply don't RTFM or the wiki. Often, it's not a bug it's about lack of "user education".
  2. many users don't search the forum for reported issues
  3. many users are unaware of the "behaving as designed" versus "bug" aspect. See #1 above. Because something doesn't work/behave the way one expects does not make it a bug.
  4. All reported bugs are looked at by the Beta team, and genuine bugs are entered into the bug reporting system.

The development team determines fix priority for bugs.
 
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. . . A nice intro to Software Development would be to check out Software development process - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yes, it's a boring read, but it's was people do for a living, and it's how software development works.

I personally have no idea about the inner-workings of FAS, but I would suspect they use a methodology similar to one found by most software development organizations.
Working for a bigger shop I get to see the daily horrors of software development. All the meetings they have.. Bug review, QA review, Change control, etc. It seems like it never ends; and it doesn't.
Just being the application manager is a giant pain. Who documents the architecture of the application? Who wrote what part of the app? Where are the documents for the multi-delay cab? It may have been written
by a contractor and is now gone, or an employee who has moved on. Now it's developed a bug and the team has to reverse engineer it to figure out how it works, then fix it, and hopefully document. All that takes time. Lots!
The fact that FAS has a team that is receiving a paycheck for software updates and bug fixes while the customer pays nothing is unheard of. You want Windows 7? Bring Money. You want the new OSX? Bring Money.
New Firmware for your POD or GT-100 or..., forget it. They are not going to spend money to further develop a box that is not bringing in new money.
ALL software is developed and delivered with known and unknown bugs. They do their best and you buy it. Done. What happens after that is a new business venture.
ALL the big software companies live off Software Maint. Software maintenance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fact that the end customer cannot directly work with the application manager concerning bugs is the normal way of business. The app manager has way too many other things to worry about than customers.
If he/she spent all day with the customers, the app would never be fixed. Never. That's why you not only cannot speak with the app manager, you don't even know who the app manager is.
It's like that on purpose. The customers need to let the developers work.

Whew.. I gotta cut down on the coffee..
 
carloszeke said:
1st AE bug; As long as AE is connected, whenever I change presets from the Axe front panel, the next one to come up immediately goes from the RECALL page to the EDIT page.(on the Axe front panel) It's annoying because before continuing to the next one, I have to first push RECALL. If I disconnect the USB, the problem stops happening.
Click to expand...

SOMEONE DIDN'T READ THE RELEASE NOTES.
 
Regardless of the response/excuse, "BUG" or "DESIGN INTENT" or "WIP" or "FOR FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS" or "KNOWN ISSUE IDENTIFIED IN RN" , if the wheel doesn't squeak then it will get ignored so people will continue to complain about functionality or deficiencies thereof.

One thing thats apparent is development priority and response is given to firmware (as it should be) and AE is secondary. I'm sure we'd all love the day when there is an equal utopia. i.e. v11.01 is released along with AE3.01.

The TTM for Axe-Fx firmware releases is honestly, unprecedented.
 
A to the T said:
One thing thats apparent is development priority and response is given to firmware (as it should be) and AE is secondary. I'm sure we'd all love the day when there is an equal utopia. i.e. v11.01 is released along with AE3.01.
Click to expand...
Speaking only based on what I've seen working with FAS: this is completely wrong. The release of AE 3.0 was a massive undertaking by FAS. Getting it sorted out a cleaned was a major priority. The firmware and software are worked on by separate teams, so there's parallel development possibilities. And the software had a much longer way to go to catch up to the firmware so the release cadence of the software has been seriously long in comparison to the firmware.

I'd expect you'll see that, with AE 3.0 here, that FAS won't let it get that way again.
 
iaresee said:
Speaking only based on what I've seen working with FAS: this is completely wrong.
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree, especially since i recognize that you are a respected and senior member whos been posting here a lot longer and more than me.

This has nothing to do with AE3 specifically or their stated commitment. Firmware is, and has to be the priority as the editor is a supplementary tool that has no impact when you hit the stage.

Prior to owning an AxeFX, I was just a lurker/troll and if you review the activity over the last 2 years you will see that for a long long time AE was inoperable. When 1.9 came out to appease the masses it was a band-aid solution because there were other priorities. I know they had to hire developers. I know it requires resources and funding. but... you will not convince me that FW dev and AE dev are equal. There is no slight here, these are strictly facts. By your own admission, quote: "I'd expect you'll see that, with AE 3.0 here, that FAS won't let it get that way again. ". It truly WAS that way.. I guess only time will tell. I'm looking forward to the next version, thats for sure! ;)
 
carloszeke said:
We need a bug manager
Click to expand...

The problem with this is too many people are ignorant and didn't read the release notes or even the manual, or worse don't understand how certain things actually work as opposed to how they "think" things should work and end up posting user mistakes as bugs.

So now you not only need the bug manager but then need people to moderate it so that only real bugs are documented, not imaginary ones from user error.
 
A to the T said:
Regardless of the response/excuse, "BUG" or "DESIGN INTENT" or "WIP" or "FOR FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS" or "KNOWN ISSUE IDENTIFIED IN RN" , if the wheel doesn't squeak then it will get ignored so people will continue to complain about functionality or deficiencies thereof.
One thing thats apparent is development priority and response is given to firmware (as it should be) and AE is secondary. I'm sure we'd all love the day when there is an equal utopia. i.e. v11.01 is released along with AE3.01.

The TTM for Axe-Fx firmware releases is honestly, unprecedented.
Click to expand...

What is apparent to you is not the same for me. Also, I will choose for myself what I love. You do not speak for the masses, just yourself.
Your opinion is duly noted, and filed appropriately.
 
What about one topic per release that only moderators and beta testers have rights to add/edit posts? Then the users can see what is being submitted to the development team.

The development team could update the topic as to their fixes/results. Just a thought. Then the users could review if their problem is in the queue.

Make it a stickie for just a month after release then disable the stickie so that it goes away or drop it if a new release comes out.
 
Severed said:
The problem with this is too many people are ignorant and didn't read the release notes or even the manual, or worse don't understand how certain things actually work as opposed to how they "think" things should work and end up posting user mistakes as bugs.

So now you not only need the bug manager but then need people to moderate it so that only real bugs are documented, not imaginary ones from user error.
Click to expand...

What we really need is bug moderators, a bug moderators manager, bug reviewers (real bugs or imaginary bugs), bug reviewers manager, bug list (real bugs) administrator, bug review/fix project manager, bug department manager, and bug department secretary.

All these people will work for free since I expect all software bugs to be fixed for free.
I know, lets call them "interns", and promise the future of employment. Yeah.. That'll work..
 
A to the T said:
I respectfully disagree, especially since i recognize that you are a respected and senior member whos been posting here a lot longer and more than me.

This has nothing to do with AE3 specifically or their stated commitment. Firmware is, and has to be the priority as the editor is a supplementary tool that has no impact when you hit the stage.

Prior to owning an AxeFX, I was just a lurker/troll and if you review the activity over the last 2 years you will see that for a long long time AE was inoperable. When 1.9 came out to appease the masses it was a band-aid solution because there were other priorities. I know they had to hire developers. I know it requires resources and funding. but... you will not convince me that FW dev and AE dev are equal. There is no slight here, these are strictly facts. By your own admission, quote: "I'd expect you'll see that, with AE 3.0 here, that FAS won't let it get that way again. ". It truly WAS that way.. I guess only time will tell. I'm looking forward to the next version, thats for sure! ;)
Click to expand...

While I can see how you came to your perception I too must disagree with your conclusion. From everything I have seen and been a part of AE has very much been the priority over the last year or two. At first it was to clean it up and get it working properly using the preexisting paradigm. As stated, there are the support app developers and Cliff who is the firmware developer. Cliff is just an amazingly fast developer. He goes from concept to code extraordinarily quick. The way AE was developed required extensive updates to the app to keep it current with the firmware updates. There was no other choice than to draw a line in the sand and bite the bullet for awhile to develop a new AE from the ground up. It had to be done or the gap between firmware release and subsequent AE releases would widen.

AE 1.9 was not a band aid solution because there were other priorities. It was put out to appease the masses (as you stated) while the dev team took on the massive task of starting over from scratch. AE 3 and other support apps (Bot) have most definitely been the priority and everyone is just now seeing the fruits of that dedication. I think it is easy to assume that FAS concentrates on the firmware side of the fence more than others primarily because of Cliffs ridiculous skills. I think the timeframe for the ground up rewrite has actually been quite remarkable.

While I know the wait was very frustrating for many I can honestly say from my perspective that FAS was very much concerned about creating the new AE paradigm were the user would feel the least impact going forward. The developers and beta team spent many more hours than I think most imagine bringing this to fruition. The turnaround time between bug reports and resolution is extremely quick now. So now when Cliff goes to hang a new clock and bestows us with new goodies AE will be right in line. It's all good! How cool was that to see the configuration cache updated when you first ran 3.1? The new paradigm and relatively short time it took to develop it did not result from a secondary focus IMHO, I found it to be just the opposite.
 
loopie said:
What is apparent to you is not the same for me. Also, I will choose for myself what I love. You do not speak for the masses, just yourself.
Your opinion is duly noted, and filed appropriately.
Click to expand...

??? It wasnt an opinion. I dont think you understand my response, which frankly, had nothing to do with the OP. I was reasoning with the folks who complain or dont read the RNs or search the forums for answers. It was an observation purely based on fact. It doesnt matter why or where the inquiry lies from their perspective. Additionally, If FW priority and AE frustration isnt apparent to you then you havent been reading the same posts I have. Its not a huge deal for me at all. Some FAS clientelle have sold their Axefx specifically due to a poor software editor or lack thereof. Are they wrong? Its now clear that we wont all love the day where FW and AE support is equal. My bad, sorry for lumping you in.
 
@cobbler - yes I agree, there were other priorites. I'm not justifying the business reasons. I've clearly been following the threads and good and bad press around it. The history as I know it was they scrapped ae for a complete ground up rebuild.

To resummarize my comments:

There will always be complainers regardless of where the perceived difficiency lies.
FW development is more critical than supplementary software dev. It has to be. FW is where the magical sound comes from :)

I can reason with both sides. Its not productive for me to be an FAS fanboy. Our support and praise of FAS must also be met with our dissatisfaction, hopes, dreams, wishes, and sometimes (rarely sometimes ;) , our demands . Lol

My conclusion that FW received priority over AE speaks for itself when you see the countless FW updates which not only provided fixes but also brand new functionality which I'm very greatful for. I havent really looked back and checked but it feels like we've received a major release roughly every 2-3 months or so! Unprecedented. Never saw this with line6, roland, or digitech...
 
A to the T said:
I respectfully disagree, especially since i recognize that you are a respected and senior member whos been posting here a lot longer and more than me.
Click to expand...
You don't have to apologize to me for having differing views and opinions! :)

But allow me to further explain my reason disagreement...

Prior to owning an AxeFX, I was just a lurker/troll and if you review the activity over the last 2 years you will see that for a long long time AE was inoperable. When 1.9 came out to appease the masses it was a band-aid solution because there were other priorities. I know they had to hire developers. I know it requires resources and funding. but... you will not convince me that FW dev and AE dev are equal.
Click to expand...
Fractal has dedicated staff for both. Cliff in one case for the hardware/firmware development and software devs for Axe-Edit. The delay between 1.9 and 3.0 had little to do with priorities and everything to do with business and engineering challenges. It takes time to find, hire and build the right team. It takes time for them to understand the problem. It takes time to just build the frameworks and scaffolding you need before you can get on to solving the bigger problems. To the outside world I'm sure it looked like AE had been abandoned. FAS went radio silent on it for the most part. But all the while they were churning away on it. Working as hard as ever to really get it right. To really make it rock solid. Because, let's be honest here, if 3.0 didn't rock the pants off everyone that used it, some really hard decisions were going to have to be made at FAS.

So while the public wasn't seeing anything happening on the Axe-Edit front for some time, it wasn't because FAS had de-prioritized it. Just that it can take time to throw it all away and start it all from scratch again. And FAS didn't want to release anything sub-par to the masses.

In the interim, Cliff kept making advances on the hardware front. But he works independent of the software, so they can release independently.
 
I run a software development company where I am the lead developer, design architect, graphic designer, project manager, beta tester, support desk rep, user liaison officer, internal IT support, tea maker and office cat tummy rub-er in one (sometimes all within a space of 15 minutes!).

I still use a bug tracking system (JIRA) and document management system to keep on top of bugs in the software I write.

I wouldn't ever make our bug tracker updateable to end users, because, well, end users have no idea how to report a bug. It is a fact. Yes, during a brief trial, we did get one line bug reports like "The program doesn't work!"...

What we DO do on some larger projects, especially where there are multiple stakeholders in the project, or where I am working with an external designer/architect, is that JIRA allows me to publish a LIST of current bugs in a nice table format that users can check up on to see what is currently listed as a bug/improvement/task etc. and the current status thereof.

Might be useful to get a list of currently recognised AE3 bugs listed here on a daily basis from FAS, but then again, end users are even worse at reading bug reports than they are at reading manuals!

All in jest - I do love my users. Really. Just not enough to let them have free reign in my bug tracking database... :D
 
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