Very Frustrated With AXE FX II XL+

Yep, something sounds amiss. Years ago you needed to tweak, but now you should be able to throw an amp sim and cab and get a great tone. Are you using cab and power amp sims?
 
A lot of good tips and points here but I can imagine reading all of this may only add to the frustration. So the only thing we know right now is that you're not an idiot and you're not coming close to your Marshall sound. Maybe post a preset or as someone suggested a recording of what you have at the moment.

One important question is are you wanting to achieve the sound of your Marshall and it's cab mic'd or as it sounds in the room with you? The good news is that it's easy to do either and based on your info above I think you have everything needed to do so.

Mic'd Marshall: Axe/Matrix/Xitone FRFR
Room Marshall: Axe (no cab sims)/Matrix/Your Marshall Cab

A few things to remember. Treat the axe as a regular Amp or Preamp. Don't worry about the deep or advanced editing right now. Play with the basic amp page controls (B/M/T/P/MV). I wouldn't even worry about cab packs at the moment. Get a grip on what you have and then venture out if needed.

And one last thing. Since I/we mentioned a mic'd amp vs an amp in the room, here's a reminder of how those two sound. Each time someone plays this Plexi, you first hear the room chaos and then just the mic'd cab. Huge difference in sound. The Axe is easily capable of both.

 
Sorry I was not aware all xitones were frfr. I thought I remember some of them having switches to turn off the tweet? Anyway Lots of good comments above. Like I said earlier unless you post a specific problem most comments will be general. Hi cut and low cut in the cab block, then find a good ir will most likely get you pretty far along. Don't be afraid to cut aggressively. Even 200/6khz if needed until you find the right ir. Also the new Q9 firmware seems especially helpful for frfr/Marshall so I would recommend updating if you haven't already.

It seems many people constantly claim it's never going to sound like a real amp because of room vs miked sound. I don't agree, my setup sounds just like a real rig. Maybe it's the ASM cab I'm using, not sure.. Maybe I just don't have a good ear but it sounds amazing live and at home. Couldn't be happier.

Best luck
 
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MDS said:
I recently purchased an Axe Fx II XL+ to use live and in the studio (...) I feel like an absolute idiot that has to have a Ph.d to figure this thing out. I am beyond frustrated and regretting my purchase. I am not a stupid man but this thing makes me feel like it. Any specific help and direction would be greatly appreciated.
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I did the same a few months ago. I feel exactly the same. The firmware changes all the time as if the Axe was some kind of beta project.
The user guides are not ergonomic at all. One must fight to understand and master this unit. You have to test things, read posts and posts on this forum. Even the older users don't master the unit...
As you, I'm really disappointed.
The best thing Fractal could and should do would be to make an effort to create good tutorials (videos) as other companies do.
Cheers
 
ZOLAIVE said:
I did the same a few months ago. I feel exactly the same. The firmware changes all the time as if the Axe was some kind of beta project.
The user guides are not ergonomic at all. One must fight to understand and master this unit. You have to test things, read posts and posts on this forum. Even the older users don't master the unit...
As you, I'm really disappointed.
The best thing Fractal could and should do would be to make an effort to create good tutorials (videos) as other companies do.
Cheers
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There are literally tons of videos available for you. Also a great wiki, manual and responsive forum. Lastly, as many others have suggested… There are aftermarket third-party tools, frameworks and options to help further your experience.

How is it that thousands of others including an impressive list of pro artists are able to use this tool productively/enjoyably? Personally, I have never had to “fight” this product. Never.

It doesn’t matter to me one whit if you stay with FAS or not; but it is definitely not because of a poor product or a lack of support available.

BTW - you decide whether or not to evolve with the product firmware. FAS never forces you to update. IIRC, most users update on their own timeline to suit their own wishes. Additionally most people see this is a feature, not a stumbling block.

You can either work with folks to solve your issues, or just complain. The rest of us will jam on. You get out of life/anything to the degree you put into it. YMMV.
 
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To put it in perspective , I struggled for 20 years with real Amps and still never had tone I was happy with. After buying the axe it took me a while to figure it out but most of what I needed to know was things that you would need to know with real amps also. You need to try a bunch of stuff out before you learn how to craft your tone. Imo it's much easier to do it virtually than buying real amps speakers pedals etc.

For those people that do have their tone dialed and just moving to the Axe I can see how it would be a bit more frustrating. But all the tools are in the box. It's just a matter of finding your path. Once you do the thing that is amazing is you can continue to improve your tone when small little details are bugging you. I'm always looking for more clarity with my chord extensions and there is always something else you can improve whereas real gear you're limited.
 
Responses bolded within quote.

ZOLAIVE said:
I did the same a few months ago. I feel exactly the same. That's a valid opinion. You're frustrated.

The firmware changes all the time as if the Axe was some kind of beta project. This shouldn't really be a source of frustration. If you're happy with the unit and your tone, you don't need to change anything, but you can if there are changes you want.

The user guides are not ergonomic at all. I somewhat agree, but the unit is a complex thing. The manual is bound to be at least a bit complex as well. The user guides are far from the only resources available though.

One must fight to understand and master this unit. You have to test things, read posts and posts on this forum. If by "fight" you mean "work," then I agree. There's a steeper learning curve than on less capable units.

Even the older users don't master the unit... I guess I agree, but you could say the same thing about pretty much anything in life. :)

As you, I'm really disappointed That too is a valid opinion. The question is whether or not you want to put in the work to become a very competent user...or at least competent enough to dial up some tones you like. That's up to you, but isn't a problem with the unit or Fractal. Not every product is for everyone. The Axe FX is no different.

The best thing Fractal could and should do would be to make an effort to create good tutorials (videos) as other companies do. What examples do you have of good tutorial from other companies? Chances are there are resources out there on the Axe that are at least as good. While more official tutorials wouldn't be bad , there are plenty of resources out there already and FAS does regularly post helpful stuff on this forum.

Cheers
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Bottom line: The Fractal products (all of them...how many companies can say that?) are fantastic. That doesn't mean they are for everyone. There's no shame if they're not for you. Conversely, there's no shame in another person not being able to love the product you love. Sometimes I think the well-intentioned guys on this forum take it too personally when someone doesn't like a piece of FAS gear. So if you really want to like it but are struggling, keep working at it. It doesn't come easy to most, but it can be very rewarding. If you get to the point of wanting to go a different direction, there's nothing wrong with that either.
 
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I use a matrix 1000 and real 2x12 - most amps I don't have to do much of anything to make them sound good other than basic adjustments - I might also add to make sure you set your input properly - I believe its one of the first things in the manual - like said above, tons of people - including a laundry list of guitar heros of past and present - use the axe very successfully...
 
Hi all,
I agree with everyone here who answered my post.
I chose to buy the Axe-FX and I assume that. I knew it was a complex unit and that's because it's complex and scalable that it's a great unit.
It's a great unit for those who have more than good sound and technical basis (sound engineers, pro artists or "ordinary" people who had time to experiment and to search among the huge amount of informations that can be found on the web). I already spent hours and hours to master my VSTs which are less complex than the axe FX. I wasn't expecting to get good sounds within a few seconds with the Axe-FX but I thought the Fractal staff had some kind of "educational project" and had created better tutorials to explain in an easy and ergonomic way all the potential of the axe FX functions (tutorials with videos and audios are the best ways to teach... IMHO...).
Actually, what I miss is a good tutorial system for intermediate people like me who have minimum sound and technical basis but not enough to master deeply all the axe fx potential. No offense but the official FAS guides don't go deep into the subject : they're really for noobs. The wiki is not complete and it's not very ergonomic (it's some kind of Features list). I found useful infos on the wiki but... sometimes confusing things. For example, see the I/O parameters (all hardware)... quite confusing...
Apart from that, there's a huge amount of informations and tips on the net (specially here) but one have to select among the massive infos that sometimes are really complex and it's not easy...
What I miss is, for example, what a companie like iZotope does. iZotope sells complex softwares but obviously iZotope chose to spend time building good and well thought tutorials (you can see those on their web pages).
I guess the Fractal stuff mainly concentrate on improving the axe-FX (which is a good point of course). But, maybe, they don't have time to concentrate on explaining deeply (but with simple examples) how to deal with the complex functions and potentialities of the unit...
I just miss that. I guess Jimmytwotimes's right : Axe-FX is not for everyone
Cheers

PS : by the way, I'm not writing here to complain. It's only some kind of suggestion for the Fractal Stuff.

 
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@MDS if you're comfortable revealing your general location you might be able to solicit in-person help.
 
I'd like to add:

If you're frustrated because you're doing a deep-dive past page 1 of your blocks and are getting frustrated by the apparent complexity... Yah, that can be very real. My best advice is to stick to the most basic controls in each block. Resist the urge to "fix" a problem with advice you find here, at least until you're more experienced with the programming.

The problem with blindly following advice from this board is that you might overlook some very important context. Things like firmware version, guitar, strings, pickups, musical style and monitoring/listening gear all drive the choices that we make in programming the AFX. Also, as has already been mentioned, it even makes a difference as to whether you're seeking a practice-room/loud-stage sound or a recording sound.

If you're starting out with FRFR, I think that's a smart choice for a beginner. This is really the best-case scenario for a beginning user (assuming that you can tolerate ... or become accustomed to ... the mic'd cab sound). I'm not going to repeat the argument for the mic'd cab sound; do a search if you'd like to find support for that sound being, at the very least, useful.

Again, *if* you're running FRFR, then the process of building your virtual rig can be very much like living beside a really great music store and having an almost unlimited gear budget: pick an amp, pick a cab, maybe a pedal or two... Wire them together, play your instrument and listen. What do you like about the sound? What don't you like? Is there too much or too little treble, mids, bass, gain, ... whatever?

Turn the knobs on the first page of the amp block. Try a different instrument, if you have one. Can you get closer to the sound you want? Close enough? Great. No? Seek advice on which amp or cab to try next. Be specific about your current setup and programming. Tell us what you'd like to hear and what you don't like about what you hear now. Rinse and repeat. A process that'd take *at least* weeks (assuming your store has an insanely liberal return policy or you really do have an unlimited budget) can be done -- for the first time through -- in a very small number of days, depending mostly on how quickly you can get the advice you need, or how much time you can spend to try a lot of different combinations. Once you've been through this a couple of times, it becomes second nature.

One more thing: if you're going for that amp-in-the-room sound, then you're almost certainly playing at high volumes while you're programming your AFX. If this is the case, please read up on things like hearing fatigue and threshold shift.
 
ZOLAIVE said:
I guess the Fractal stuff mainly concentrate on improving the axe-FX (which is a good point of course). But, maybe, they don't have time to concentrate on explaining deeply (but with simple examples) how to deal with the complex functions and potentialities of the unit...
I just miss that. I guess Jimmytwotimes's right : Axe-FX is not for everyone
Cheers

PS : by the way, I'm not writing here to complain. It's only some kind of suggestion for the Fractal Stuff.
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Have you checked out the tech notes section of the forum, Cliff Chase has tons of posts, likely take up a lot of his time, explaining the in-depth intricacies of the Axe and tube amps in general

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/forums/tech-notes.77/
 
I'm a big reader of the forum and I can attest that if you want to make it work, the posts and people here can help make that happen.

If you're looking for tutorials, Cooper has some pretty detailed ones (and he crushes with it) - http://www.coopercarter.com/fractal-master-classes/

In combing through posts over the years, there are many folks who pick one up and have difficulty getting a sound they like. To me it seems like a lot of them have a specific sound they are looking for from a live amp. My suggestion would be to spend some time just scrolling through the dial with your 'live' setup and see if you can find something that catches your ear that is not the sound of the amp I expect you are trying to replace. Editing a preset to alter the gain or add/remove effects is pretty simple. Give yourself a break from the real amp and see if you can adjust to what the Axe actually does.

Some folks here have put time into dialing in very specific tones and it's just about impossible to tell the difference between the amp and the Axe. So it can be done.

The Axe is really deep though, so you're not alone in feeling overwhelmed. Good luck. Oh...check out this guy too...I believe he's all Axe and crazy good tones: http://www.garycainband.com/
 
I'm watching a Cooper free preview now and his approach is just what I've been looking for! Very helpful. I know I'll be spending a lot of time on the Tech Notes forum as well. ZOLAIVE I would think this would be just what the Dr ordered, definitely check them out.
Thanks dwm.
 
ZOLAIVE said:
I wasn't expecting to get good sounds within a few seconds with the Axe-FX...
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If you can't find sounds you like by just flipping through the factory presets, then there's something wrong with your setup.



ZOLAIVE said:
Actually, what I miss is a good tutorial system for intermediate people like me who have minimum sound and technical basis but not enough to master deeply all the axe fx potential.
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There is no way to deeply master all of the potential of the Axe-Fx just by watching tutorials. Likewise, there is no way to deeply master all the potential of guitar playing by watching tutorials. You have to study both disciplines piece-by-piece, building on your knowledge and experience—and you have to practice each bit of knowledge to truly make it your own.

Here's the good news: you don't have to deeply master it all to get great sounds out of it.

In all fairness, even if you read the owner's manual for an Airbus 380 from front to back, that won't make you a good pilot or aircraft mechanic. :)


ZOLAIVE said:
The wiki is not complete and it's not very ergonomic (it's some kind of Features list).
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If all you found in the wiki was a feature list, you didn't dig very deep. :)

The wiki doesn't come from Fractal. It's a collaboration by Fractal owners and users. It's curated and largely written by one person (@yek ), and he is not a Fractal employee.


I understand your frustration. But don't think that you have to learn it all to make good use of it. As @TieDyedDevil said, keep it simple. You don't have to go beyond normal, basic amp controls to get a lot of great tones and satisfaction. That will give you time to learn each of the deeper pieces at your own pace, in your own time.
 
Keep in mind just because parameters are there does not mean you need to adjust everything. Fractal is just kind of unique in they give total control while other brands might have just a basic tone stack and gain and volume knobs. You can make the Axe as complex or simple as you want. Basically all the 200+ amp models are already set correctly, all those advanced parameters are akin to getting a soldering iron and modding the amp.

I've owned tons of amps in my life, but have I ever one felt the need to open one up, and change the resistance value of a certain part by soldering in something new ? Not hardly, but that is essentially what you can do with the Axe, if you want to......

I'd imagine 90% or more of users never adjust all those pages of values, or even have a clue what they do. The other 10% loves that ability, and if you make it sound worse, you can always just go back to the starting point easily enough, kind of a fun way to learn about amps without risk of electrocution! lol

I'd suggest Austin Buddy's amp packs, totally worth the money, and he went through and "dialed-in" all the amps to sound great, based on his vast experience. Basically gives you hundreds of ready to go amp tones all just by turning a dial.
 
You don't need to buy anything. Do yourself a favor and run through the matrix into your 4x12; learn to dial this thing eliminating the frfr thing. FRFR is different and it can mess with you. By dialing into your real cab first, you will see that these ir's into a frfr are a different. You will see that they need addition eq. Also, the factory cabs are perfectly fine. The presets need only the same tweaks that any tube amp would need, using the same controls a tube amp comes with. There is beginning to be as much hype concerning ir's and presets as there is with "tubes". I have an old marshall and can get surprisingly close using my guitar cab. Through frfr, although its good, its different.
 
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