User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs

Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

Stringtheorist said:
angello120 said:
I am merely passing on a bit of wisdom gleaned from many years ranging from
3 guy's going through one A.C.30 :? to a 7 piece with a 30k rig and still with 100% hearing,
(was that the door bell :p ) Tinnitus is not a good band member :D :D
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The only "wisdom" you have imparted is your unwillingness to play with a hard hitting drummer and wear ear protection. My guess is you don't play hard rock.
Click to expand...

Been there, done that, :D :D
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

Stringtheorist said:
hunter said:
Dude I've been following your journey of trying to get the perfect amplification rig for the Axe. I've been through similar and loved the path Axe=> Bogner Shiva the most. What I think in your case, rather than getting a VHT2502 or anything else to try, you should go back to what worked. Plug the Axe into your 3/100. You will still get all the benefits from Preamp/Effect versatility plus the punch from the amp you so love. No need to search forever, as I think nothing else will give you that punch. A rack tube power amp will almost weigh the same as the 3/100 too.
Click to expand...
Out of neccessity I am having to gig with that format next weekend for the first time (Axe's first outing). With an amp and speaker stack behind me I will have nowhere to put my rack (Axe + Synth) but on the floor which will make it difficult if not impossible to tweak my presets during performance. Frankly, I am nervous as hell about it. (What I want is to be able to mount the rack on a stand and have the speaker on the floor angled upwards against the legs. Where would I put the amp?)

Anyway, tried the Atomic FR last night at rehearsal with my other band. We all agreed the sound wasn't as good as last week when I ran into my amp+cab configuration. Currently I'm mostly using a Red Wire Greenback sim (SM57, cap, 0in.). The distorted sound is very gritty. Going to try some other IRs today.

My principal finding last night was how the Atomic seems to struggle to keep up with a loud 4-piece band... I had to have the Volume (on the Atomic) nearly cranked to hear myself above the rhythm section even though all the master levels within my presets were quite high. At this level I could hear the speaker/cabinet distorting unpleasantly. So I raised the Axe Output level as high as I could without distorting the clean sounds. I then tried to compensate by lowering the Atomic volume and going through all my presets cranking the levels. (It was now becoming necessary to raise the master volume on some presets which began to introduce some undesirable distortion/compression.) I left the Mix tab output level set around unity (I alter this only to balance my presets during performance) and the cab block level controls. Not sure whether raising these might have helped...

All in all, very unsatisfactory. It seems like there isn't sufficient headroom in this thing to use it as backline (although it would be fine for monitoring).

After two hours of playing the Atomic (on and off) at nearly full volume I got really worried that I was hammering the thing and was glad when we agreed to pack up and go home. :|
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I don't have the Atomic FRFR so I am not here to 'defend' anything.

Some observations though from your posts.

A) You should set your presets so you can use ALL the output from the Fractal, all the way through the range. I would hazard a guess that you have gain staging issues in your presets if you cannot turn your Axe-FX all the way up without clipping.

B) A 50 watt 112, even ported, is not going to hang with a loud rock drummer. No way. You need, IMHO, at least 2 112's to even start if your drummer is a monster on the kit. No way around that. There are drummers that can play with control and dynamics; but the overwhelming majority of hard rock drummers play FREAKING loud. For fun sometime, put a db meter (Radio Shack cheapie = $50) and measure his output. Then turn and measure your output. Trust me, you need at least 212's.

C) Turn the Atomic up all the way and let the Axe-FX set the volume. Shoot for at least 1/2 up on the output volume knob on the Fractal Axe-FX.

D) Check into the 'mixing' threads for the Red Wirez cab's. Running FRFR is indeed a LOT more 'work' to dial in. That work pays off tremendously once you DO have it dialed down tight and never have to fiddle with it at a show.

Just some thoughts. Just trying to help. I have not heard, seen, nor tired the Atomic FRFR so please don't feel I am attacking you. I am not.
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

Hi,

to all of you who are concerned about the possible volume of the Reactor FRs: last weekend we had a jam session with lots of guitar players, singers, a few bass and stick players and drummers. We had a huge stage with two drum sets and sometimes we were playing with two drummers, two bass players and 5-6 guitarists - yeah, that's crazy, I know, but we had lots and lots of fun.

I had my two Reactor FRs stacked - here's a pic where you can see them on the left:

edit: pic removed

btw. this shows only a third from the whole stage here's a pic with half the stage:

edit: pic removed

you can already see 6 guitar players jamming and here's a pic from a part of the other side with the second drumset and more guitar players:

edit: pic removed

And let me tell you, I had no problems to be heard with my rig. It was no problem for the Reactor FRs to cut through and I still had reserves. No need to be concerned, these can be LOUD.

Best,

Jochen
edit: removed the pics (broken links), because we changed something on our server which had an influence on the folder with those session pics
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

Hi,
angello120 said:
Only ONE bass player :eek: :lol: :lol:
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have to correct my last post, there were up to three bass players and two stick players but I have not found a pic with all of them. :lol:

Best,

Jochen
PS: Lyrics, wasted time between solos. ;)
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

Stringtheorist said:
With an amp and speaker stack behind me I will have nowhere to put my rack (Axe + Synth) but on the floor which will make it difficult if not impossible to tweak my presets during performance. Frankly, I am nervous as hell about it. (What I want is to be able to mount the rack on a stand and have the speaker on the floor angled upwards against the legs. Where would I put the amp?)
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Moving the monitor closer and pointing directly at you is one way to overcome the "it's not loud enough" factor. If you're using it as a back line and competing with the drummer, you're going to be hard-pressed. OTOH, if you use it like a true stage monitor and have it as close as possible and directly aimed at you, 50W should be plenty of volume. One of my friends is a fantastic drummer (but dang! does he hit hard), but if I have the amp right in front of me tilted up I am able to hear it no problem, even though it's only 40W. Just a thought; I realize this might not be practical/possible for your stage setup.
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

Stringtheorist said:
Thanks Scott. Are you suggesting I need to turn up the Mix Main level as well?
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If need be, but you need to watch your clipping.

The concept (if you know this, skip this) is that you need the most signal you can have before distortion. So set up your clean tones, get them as loud as you can before clipping. Then set all your distortion patches to match that db output (I use a Radio Shack DB meter and then finally my ears).

What you'll find is that FRFR takes a LOT more 'pre' thought and work before; but no tweaking on the fly or while performing. That's a tremendous freedom from worrying about the tools when you should be in the moment creating the music. It's like a race car driver, if the car is giving you mechanical issues that need tweaking, it hinders your ability to race. IMHO, the Axe-FX FRFR paradigm demands you do an enourmous 'shift' in your paradigm by forcing you to 'set up your race car' before you 'race' but pays off ENORMOUSLY by removing so many variables in a live setting (or studio setting) by delivering that 'honed' tone every performance, every stage, every room, every setting, every time without fail or effort.

Just my process applied to what you seem to be facing. What I read in your journey posted online is that you are still fighting the 'shift'. And if your drummer is a heavy hitter, IMHO, no 112 combo could keep up without going into (unwanted) clipping. Imagine taking a 112 Fender Deluxe and trying to play with your band... it'd not hold up; it'd fart out because you'd have to push it SO hard. Same basic logistic to me. To push AIR and experience that rock 'thing' you need to PUSH air.

In my case, I use it as a monitor and depend on FOH pushing the air. It's really a different thing and definitely a different experience than a conventional backline type of rig.

The Fractal/Atomic FRFR allows you to sort of bridge the 'monitor' (my paradigm) and the conventional backline paradigm. But you need to PUSH air with a conventional rig. No 112, IMHO, can do that in a hard rock setting with a LOUD heavy hitting drummer WITHOUT being mic'd up at least. And even then, it'd be a setup for fail. You need, at least in my experience, a 212 setup minimum. Most hard rock bands I've been in, I got along with that a 212, but preferred a 412. YMMV.

Sorry for the thread hijack guys! Out!
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

Stringtheorist said:
hunter said:
Dude I've been following your journey of trying to get the perfect amplification rig for the Axe. I've been through similar and loved the path Axe=> Bogner Shiva the most. What I think in your case, rather than getting a VHT2502 or anything else to try, you should go back to what worked. Plug the Axe into your 3/100. You will still get all the benefits from Preamp/Effect versatility plus the punch from the amp you so love. No need to search forever, as I think nothing else will give you that punch. A rack tube power amp will almost weigh the same as the 3/100 too.
Click to expand...
Out of neccessity I am having to gig with that format next weekend for the first time (Axe's first outing). With an amp and speaker stack behind me I will have nowhere to put my rack (Axe + Synth) but on the floor which will make it difficult if not impossible to tweak my presets during performance. Frankly, I am nervous as hell about it. (What I want is to be able to mount the rack on a stand and have the speaker on the floor angled upwards against the legs. Where would I put the amp?)

Anyway, tried the Atomic FR last night at rehearsal with my other band. We all agreed the sound wasn't as good as last week when I ran into my amp+cab configuration. Currently I'm mostly using a Red Wire Greenback sim (SM57, cap, 0in.). The distorted sound is very gritty. Going to try some other IRs today.

My principal finding last night was how the Atomic seems to struggle to keep up with a loud 4-piece band... I had to have the Volume (on the Atomic) nearly cranked to hear myself above the rhythm section even though all the master levels within my presets were quite high. At this level I could hear the speaker/cabinet distorting unpleasantly. So I raised the Axe Output level as high as I could without distorting the clean sounds. I then tried to compensate by lowering the Atomic volume and going through all my presets cranking the levels. (It was now becoming necessary to raise the master volume on some presets which began to introduce some undesirable distortion/compression.) I left the Mix tab output level set around unity (I alter this only to balance my presets during performance) and the cab block level controls. Not sure whether raising these might have helped...

All in all, very unsatisfactory. It seems like there isn't sufficient headroom in this thing to use it as backline (although it would be fine for monitoring).

After two hours of playing the Atomic (on and off) at nearly full volume I got really worried that I was hammering the thing and was glad when we agreed to pack up and go home. :|
Click to expand...

Are you just using 1 FR? If so, it doesn't surprise me at all that it may not be able to provide the volume you need with a tone you like. Having just 1 12" an a tweeter, it can only move so much air.
As far as where to put your Axe-Fx for quick tweaking, I have used rack gear like this for many years. I have found that one of the X-type keyboard stands works great. You can get either a single or double x-style and they hold plenty of weight...plus, if you look around, you can pick one up at a very inexpensive price. I almost forgot to mention that when you set it to the right width to hold your rack, it is at a great height for rack tweaking. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

I will share my experience after two practices. The first practice was with a five piece: 2 guitars, bass, drums, percussion. The FR held its own in this setting. We played a range of tunes: ballads, rock/hard rock/alternative; however, we did not play any metal. Both our drummer and percussionist can be heavy handed at times but are not over the top. The next practice was a four piece: guitar, bass drums and keys that plays progressive rock. Again the Atomic held its own. IMO there is plenty of volume for small to medium sized rooms with only vocals going through the PA.

That being said, I have had to make some adjustments and my tone isn't there yet. Although, I did most of my tweaking prior to practice and during breaks so I didn't spend a whole lot of time. I am running the Atomic volume at 2 o'clock and the tweeter at 1:30. Output on the Ultra ranged from 1 to 3 o'clock. I still think the high end on the Atomic is so much smoother than my RCF. It is much more musical; however, I found myself increasing the high end in my presets and the tweeter of the Atomic to get it to cut better through the mix.

We have a gig tonight and I'm pretty sure if I'm going to use the Atomic. I tweeked my presets for about 30 min today but will have some more time later before the gig.
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

Stringtheorist said:
My principal finding last night was how the Atomic seems to struggle to keep up with a loud 4-piece band... I had to have the Volume (on the Atomic) nearly cranked to hear myself above the rhythm section even though all the master levels within my presets were quite high. At this level I could hear the speaker/cabinet distorting unpleasantly. So I raised the Axe Output level as high as I could without distorting the clean sounds. I then tried to compensate by lowering the Atomic volume and going through all my presets cranking the levels. (It was now becoming necessary to raise the master volume on some presets which began to introduce some undesirable distortion/compression.) I left the Mix tab output level set around unity (I alter this only to balance my presets during performance) and the cab block level controls. Not sure whether raising these might have helped...

All in all, very unsatisfactory. It seems like there isn't sufficient headroom in this thing to use it as backline (although it would be fine for monitoring).
:|
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There probably won't be enough volume with one Atomic to replace a 4x12 cabinet being driven hard by a 50 or 100 watt head. What about using the Atomic behind you and then your monitors in front to make up for the extra volume? I'm not sure what you guys are running, but if you were miking the amps before, this may help. I'm assuming you use monitors for vocals. If you are used to ALL your volume being generated solely from your backline, the Atomic may not cut it.
I would also not recommend trying to tweak your presets "on the fly," as you did. This can introduce some other difficulties that may make things worse than before. If you have to tweak, I would only use the master level on the "MIX" page of the main "LAYOUT" menu - if you were tweaking the master volume in the amp block this will cause a tremendous difference in the sound of the preset.

Kevin
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

Maybe I got a defective pair of Atomics. They smoke. They scream. They kill. :mrgreen:

Every person who has heard them can testify! Two-Rock, '67 Fender Super, MESA? They are all for sale. Finally. I'm getting the best results (cleans, powerful thick blues/rock tones) from my Ernie Ball Luke with EMGs, though I'm pretty sure that is only because I have barely tweaked any of my patches for my Les Paul or Anderson. I'm too busy playing to mess with them right now!
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

Have spent a few days with mine now.
I'm seriously thinking of buying a second for the stereo spread.
I think the combination of the axefx and the atomic is easily the best sounding rig I've ever played through.
Ive tried a Roland GR20 through it for laughs and that smokes too.
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

The reliability factor on these has me spoked. I may run back to the ss amp and cab thing until Tom has a chance to look and see what's going on.
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

Sixstring said:
The reliability factor on these has me spoked. I may run back to the ss amp and cab thing until Tom has a chance to look and see what's going on.
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that hardly seems fair at this point. by my count there's 2 people who have posted suggesting any sort of problem with the amp itself. the most conservative guess would put that at 1% of all the amps they've shipped out so far. that hardly seems like cause for concern. i'm expecting to finalize payment for one as soon as tom gets back and i'm not hesitant about it in the least.
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

chapelizod said:
Sixstring said:
The reliability factor on these has me spoked. I may run back to the ss amp and cab thing until Tom has a chance to look and see what's going on.
Click to expand...

that hardly seems fair at this point. by my count there's 2 people who have posted suggesting any sort of problem with the amp itself. the most conservative guess would put that at 1% of all the amps they've shipped out so far. that hardly seems like cause for concern. i'm expecting to finalize payment for one as soon as tom gets back and i'm not hesitant about it in the least.
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Your probably right... maybe i'm just getting cold feet. The SLA-2 and cab has worked for me without fail for quite a wile and there hasen't been a lot of review on the Reactor to date. The reviews here so far seam to be ether really killer or just ok and like you have pointed out with a few having issues with the unit itself. It's strange that their hasn't been a lot of Youtube vids, I think I have only seen two. People must still be ether to bussy tunning or playing or both.
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

Hi,

I've been playing with my two Reactor FRs since mid august and never had a problem. They sound fantastic, give me all the volume I could ask for (and then some more), are dead quiet when I want them to (no hiss nor hum, the fans are silent too) and the overall sound of my band is better since I started using them. I also used them on the jam session mentioned above and they were heavily used on those two days, they were running for at least 10 hours on each day and they were working like a charm.

Best,

Jochen
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

This might sound like a strange (off-purpose) question, but has anyone tried using the AFR with tweeter volume on "0" and cab sims off? Would that work like a non FRFR setup?
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

hunter said:
This might sound like a strange (off-purpose) question, but has anyone tried using the AFR with tweeter volume on "0" and cab sims off? Would that work like a non FRFR setup?
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I haven't tried tweeter volume at 0 but I'm definitely going to do it, having already noticed livelier results with cab sims off.
 
Re: User Reviews of ATOMIC FRs?

hunter said:
This might sound like a strange (off-purpose) question, but has anyone tried using the AFR with tweeter volume on "0" and cab sims off? Would that work like a non FRFR setup?
Click to expand...
If it is the same "custom broadband" speaker from Eminence like in the old Atomics I would guess it doesn't sound good.
I tried the 2x50 Atomic with my Standard/ cab sims on and I was not impressed at all.
 
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