USB recording - revisited (sorry!)

plyall

plyall

Power User
Folks -

I have always recorded my Axe-FX II using an analog path (Axe -> RME Fireface 800 -> Computer -> Logic Pro X), and similarly done my DI path with a real DI box coming off the guitar, and going into a separate input on the Fireface.

Well, when I brought up the studio after Christmas, my primary Fireface failed to power up. It is now on its way to RMA land.

In the interim, I thought I'd give USB-based recording an honest shot. I setup a project @ 48Khz and recorded some sample playing. Seems to work great, except that the DI (dry) signal coming in off of USB 3&4 seems to be abysmally low. Barely any meter or waveform deflection. I did solo the DI track and play it back - the music is there, but it's at a very low level.

I know that cliff recently reduced the USB levels by -6db (?), but is there any way to get more juice on the DI tracks? I thought I saw where someone was compensating by applying +6db (was it on output 1 global?), but does this boost the effected tracks (1&2), the dry tracks (3&4), or both? Is there a way to just boost the DI level?

Thanks!
 
If I'm not mistaken, the DI signal is at the identical level/clone of the signal that is coming right at the guitar output jack/AFX instrument input, so when you re-amp that DI signal drives the AFX the same way that plugging in would...??
 
Stratoblaster said:
If I'm not mistaken, the DI signal is at the identical level/clone of the signal that is coming right at the guitar output jack/AFX instrument input, so when you re-amp that DI signal drives the AFX the same way that plugging in would...??
Click to expand...

correct.
 
Yeah, it's absolutely kind of unsettling the first time that you see it and are trying to figure out what the hell is set wrong, but that's how it's supposed to be and it works great. On a similar note the digital output works exactly the same way which is how I do my reamping. I record all wet analog into my soundcard while I record a dry AES signal and it's absolutely pristine (and low level too). The reason behind this is that all of my monitoring and crap is connected to my soundcard so it makes recording and editing and whatever a seamless process with no need to rewire or change anything.
 
Shasha -

How do you route just the dry signal to your digital out? For some reason I thought that the S/PDIF-AES output only carried the processed signal.
 
Question: Does the USB only carry one set of signals? I see 2 sets of ins on my Sonar input channels (numbered 1 and 3 - always that was with Sonar for some reason).
BUT on the Audio page in I/O menu if I set the digital signal to "input" I ONLY get dry signal from my USB. So.. I guess my real question is can I do re-amping using just digital (USB)? It seems that I can't.

Would I have to run XLRs out of my axe into the inputs of an interface (I have a Motu) and then also use the S/PDIF ins/outs as well in order to do this?

Edit: In thinking about it, I really have never tried to re amp before and today is the first day! So I REALLY don't know what I'm doing. Not sure how to get the dry sig back through the Axe and then back into Sonar again. I'm GUESSING, I'd set my channel outs on Sonar back to AXE, via S/PDIF? the routing is confusing my small brain!
 
Re-amping is very simple. Most of the time you are going to record a wet (typically a stereo track for me) and a dry (usually mono). The wet is just like you are recording the entire effects chain/amp; i.e., "your tone". The dry will be the uneffected, clean signal from the input of the AxeFXII. Actually if you use the front jack it includes the "magic sauce" or whatever Cliff calls it. But for all intents and purposes it's the signal at the end of the guitar cable.

Now the USB way is pretty simple even though I only really tried it once and I can't remember 100% sure which output is which, but basically one will be the wet and one will be dry. Now if you change the digital signal to "input" then I believe that you will only get the dry signal because the USB and digital signal path share a lot of circuitry. By default (meaning not setting the digital to "input") one stereo pair is dry and one is wet coming from the USB. So when you say that Sonar sees two sets of stereo pairs it is right; one is dry L/R and the other is wet L/R.

It'll be a two pass scenario to re-amp.

Easiest way to do this is to create 3 new tracks in your project. Now I may be mixed up on the USB stereo pairs so you may need to do some experimenting, but I believe that you need to send the dry signal to input 1 and the wet to 3/4 for monitoring. If I'm wrong hopefully someone can correct me.

First pass
AxeFXII with standard settings

First track - dry track
  • mono
  • USB input 3
  • USB output 1
  • record enable

Second track - wet track 1
  • stereo
  • USB input 1
  • USB output 3/4
  • record enable

Third track - wet track 1
  • stereo
  • USB input 1
  • USB output 3/4

Hit record and you should record one dry and one wet track.

Re-amp
Go to the I/O menu of the AxeFXII, select input as USB or digital (not sure what it is labeled as).

First track - dry track
  • mono
  • USB input 3
  • USB output 1

Second track - wet track 1
  • stereo
  • USB input 1
  • USB output 3
  • mute

Third track - wet track 1
  • stereo
  • USB input 1
  • USB output 3
  • record enable

Hit record and you should playback the dry track sending it into the AxeFXII and record the wet re-amped signal from the AxeFXII.
 
Thank you ShaSha. That's pretty close to what I was imagining, and your breakdown is VERY helpful to me. I'm doing demo's for a band right now, and I'd like to just be able to "get it done' with a decent tone, but be able to go back and do some tone matching later next week and have the other guitar players tone represented too... so re-amping suddenly became a really useful idea for me. I'm going to work on this today and this weekend. There are a couple of differences I am seeing though.. so I have a couple more questions if you don't mind...

1. When you say Mono for input, do you mean only taking one side, such as Input 1 left? ( assume so... but I often miss things)
2. Sonar is showing my ins and outs as ASIO 2 ins and 1 out. I only have Out1 Axe FX, I don't have an out 2,3 or 4. I'm wondering why I would need them... and why I would want an input on the dry track why reamping? In my mind it seems I would set no input on the dry track after the initial recording, and only use it as a playback track for the re-amp. So, that would be on Out 1. Am I off?
3. Not sure why I need the reamp record tracks to go to Out 3 (which I don't have). Are these not just receiving the input back from the Axe. Seems more likely I would output those tracks to a BUS in my DAW. In your setup it looks like I have the wet tracks looping back into the dry track. I don't get that part.

Sorry I'm slow...;)
 
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