USA Lead amp help!

Has anybody got close to the black album sound in firmware 10, using close amp settings and graphic eq?

I heard it was Mesa Mark IIC+ slaved into a Marshall's power section for the main setup, marshall cab (stock speakers?), and sm57, 421 mic blend.

A Boogie power section is quite different than a Marshall power section and the Mark models won't get you there. However, the USA Pre models will. Those models use a conventional power amp model (since that's what I like). Be sure to set the Sag to some nonzero value.
 
would you guys recommend doing the Graphic EQ shaping with the EQ in the Amp block, or did you need to use an external GEQ or PEQ block in Post?
 
I usually dial in the amp with a familiar real cab before using
Ir 's. Isn't there two versions. with and without the fat switch engaged.
Have you tried both. I also think they sound a little upper midrangy
and bass heavy at the moment. I won't be sure until next gig is done though.


Ok, I use the USA Lead amp for Foo Fighters tunes and a few choice classic rock songs ... and I have not been able to dial it in with version 10.

What cabs do you Mesa pros use? My old 9 presets sounded like mud after the upgrade, mostly due to the Depth now defaulting to a high value for all the USA models. I have been dialing for 3 days, and I still can't find the sweet spot.

I cut the low fequencies back, dial in the speaker params, bring the depth back to around 9:00, lower the gain, raise the default master a bit above 50% .. and I am lost.

Tried a bunch of cab combos, cannot find one that works well for these models. The Rectos rip, and have been easy to setup. But for some reason this mid gain Mesa modeling has me stumped!

Thanks for any info ...
 
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would you guys recommend doing the Graphic EQ shaping with the EQ in the Amp block, or did you need to use an external GEQ or PEQ block in Post?

I copied the PEQ from the stock USA Lead preset v10, or the Petrucci preset Adam Cook posted recently.
 
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Setup a USA Lead + and a Yellow Pre amp ... using the tips here ... and it is sounding much better. Have to try it in the band setting, but my ears are very happy.

Amazing how much the bass being turned down clears up the sound. Added bass back wit the EQ and it really is a great tone.

Thanks again to all who posted suggestions!
 
If default settings means bass, middle and treble at 5 I totally understand why it sounds like crappy mud, especially since the amps now are so close to the originals.
I had a Mark 5 before my Axe.
Try these settings:
Reset your amp block first by double press bypass.
Gain 6-7
Bass 1-2, the lower the tighter
Middle 4-6, this adds saturation, lower equals clearer
Treble 5-7, this adds gain
Presence to taste, higher settings give open crisp, and lower settings equals more compressed and duller sound.
Master 3-5
Use Depth and GEQ for more bass and sculpturing.
Pair with v30 and try proximity in the cab block for more bottom.

Final tip, when the gain goes up in a Mark model turn down the preamp bass!

Please report!

These are all spot on and I thank jeppekristoffer for saving me the typing. :) I would also recommend turning up the "Input trim" anywhere between 3.000 - 4.500, then decrease the amp sim's Drive control accordingly. I personally set the Drive very low (no higher than "3ish") and engage the "Sat" switch. This will give the amp sim a much more aggressive character. It might not be something you can do on an actual Mesa Mark amp, but it sounds great. Something that can be found on a Mesa Mark amp is a factory set cold power tube bias. Try turning down the "Pwr Tube Bias" in the amp sims advanced menu to around 0.200 (I have mine set to 0.205) to simulate this. I also always use one of the Tube Screamer type Drive sims before the amp ("Eternal Love" being my current favorite), drive at 0.00, level 10.00 (or close to those). This will tighten the amp up greatly and give it a lot more punch.


Edit - I was thinking of my pre 10.00 settings when I said I set the amp's drive control at "3ish". I forgot Cliff added more gain to the Mark IV models in the update. My actual highest gain setting with any of them is now 2.48, with the lowest being only 1.87 (and people say I play with way too much gain - Sheeesh!!!! ;)) This is for the same amount of gain across all the Mark IV models, as some have more gain than others. Even though the amp's drive is well under 3, because of the drive pedal sim in front, the amp's "Input Trim" being turned up, and the "Sat" engaged, I still get a ton of gain and sustain. The tone is very rich and creamy.




If you are trying to get the USA Leads to sound more like they did pre 10.00, this is what worked for me:



- Set the "Modeling Version" in the Global menu to whatever choice you were using before 10.00 (most likely it will be 9.xx)

- In the Amp sim's Advanced menu, set the "Pwr Supply Type" to "DC" and turn "Mimic" off. To get rid of any unwanted darkness or mud, I would also recommend turning up the "Character" control a slight amount. It's really powerful, so a little bit is all you should need (I have mine set at + "0.42").

-Some of the values on the amp sim's "Spkr" page have changed on the USA Lead models. You might try setting them back to the previous values and see if you prefer them that way. It's basically the first 3 parameters that have changed:


Pre 10.00 values

Low Freq - 95.0 Hz
Low Q - 2.250
Low Res - 5.00


I can't recommend a cab sim, because I use a Tone-Match I made of a real Mark IV in place of one.


I also use one of forum member's floydian80 "Amp Match" Tone-Match blocks from one one his patches where he matched this real Mark V. I have this directly after the Amp sim, and before the Cab sim (to clarify, I saved the Tone-Match I mentioned above that I created as a cab IR since you can't use 2 Tone-Match blocks in the same patch). Here's the link to the thread with his patches:


http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-tone-match/52546-mark-v-amp-match-all-channels-modes.html


I can't recommend these enough. Try as many of the Tone-Match blocks from the patches as you can and see if you like what they add to the tone. I think of them as being the Mesa Mark amp's on-board graphic eq (they took the place of me having to use the Axe's Parametric EQ). My personal favorite is from "Mark V Ch3 IIC+ Bright". The Extreme mode TM's are also good for a more scooped metal tone.




Beyond all that, use your ears. Even it it isn't something that's done on the actual amp, try it anyway and see if it sounds good.


If it sounds good, it is good. :)
 
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I have a Mark IV and never liked the sound through my Rectifier cab loaded with V30's. It always sounded best through the original Mesa Black Shadow. My point is to maybe try a speaker that doesn't break up as easily.
 
I have a Mark IV and never liked the sound through my Rectifier cab loaded with V30's. It always sounded best through the original Mesa Black Shadow. My point is to maybe try a speaker that doesn't break up as easily.

Would there be an equivalent factory ir to the Black Shadow?
 
would you guys recommend doing the Graphic EQ shaping with the EQ in the Amp block, or did you need to use an external GEQ or PEQ block in Post?

Use a PEQ. I have a Mark V, and made a quick video of it the other day. This tone in this video came out a little darker than I wanted it to, but I have it about 99% of the way there in the Axe now using an OH V30 cab in mono hires and an SM57.



Just the amp block set close to my actual amp settings + PEQ for the 5-band and that's it. With a little more tweaking I won't even need to bother with a TMA block.
 
would you guys recommend doing the Graphic EQ shaping with the EQ in the Amp block, or did you need to use an external GEQ or PEQ block in Post?


I have used the geq in the amp block but if you would like something more markish, try this written by Vegababy here on the forum.

Join DateJul 2008LocationPlanet EarthPosts2,343

Re: Model of the Mesa Boogie Mark series on-board graphic eq

Isn't there an analysis of the*Mesa*EQ on the Wiki ?

Wait...here it is:'Analysis of a Mesa/Boogie*Mark*IV schematic revealed the following settings for recreating the famous amp's graphic EQ.
'Frequencies:
* 87.61 Hz
* 371.74 Hz
* 723.43 Hz
* 1575.87 Hz
* 4822.88 Hz
*Q:* 1.414 (ideal for octave equalizer)
* 1.3 (actual, due to component values used)

*'There's about 18dB of cut and 17dB of boost. This is in the ideal world, so +/- 15dB was probably the design goal. The pot response is logarithmic – i.e. most of the cut/boost is near the end of the pot travel. Also, this is not a constant Q design, so the Q decreases (or bandwidth increases) with less boost or cut. I don't know if Cliff's graphic is constant Q, but the parametric should be constant Q, given you have a Q setting.'
 
Edit - I was thinking of my pre 10.00 settings when I said I set the amp's drive control at "3ish". I forgot Cliff added more gain to the Mark IV models in the update. My actual highest gain setting with any of them is now 2.48, with the lowest being only 1.87 (and people say I play with way too much gain - Sheeesh!!!! ;))

" People " always say that. But they mix up gain with loudness and voicing* in band mix.As owner of Mark V and Axe i have a bit of experience on that

Roland

*the cut through ability of Marks is very high and because of the good EQ you can always find your frequency band
(PS:everybody please consider that early Deep Purple(yes I am old) is almost no gain but LOUD
 
No mix up. I was being sarcastic. I'm the first to admit that I play with way too much gain. :mrgreen


I think I may be using a little less with my redone 10.00 USA Lead patches though, I'm not sure. They still sound pretty gainy, but it feels like there is less when I'm playing. At the same time, the tone seems easier to play now than before (after I got used to it anyways). The feel its bouncier and more alive. Notes just seem to "pop" off the fretboard without much effort now.
 
BMH said:
Amazing how much the bass being turned down clears up the sound. Added bass back wit the EQ and it really is a great tone.
Just to clarify what was already mentioned by some posts: The tone controls on the Meas Boogie Mark-amps are located before the preamp, which causes them to behave more like gain knobs. In other words, the bass tone control behaves more like a gain knob for the low frequencies etc. That's why one uses the tone controls to affect the feel and an EQ afterwards to affect the tone (as Cliff and John Petrucci mentioned). If you don't know if the tone controls are located before or after the preamp on a certain amp model, go to the Advanced page and read the TONE LOCATION parameter. :)
 
The key to Mark models are to set your feel with the tone controls and then use the graphic EQ for your tone. The tone controls are pre-gain so they don't do much when you are using lots of gain but they will affect the feel.

It seems that you are answering a lot of threads giving specific tips and details for specific amps. I posted a thread a the other week wherein I suggested you include a little text pop up that one could activate in Axe Edit with details about the selected model, such as Non MV or MV, no presence etc, cab recommendations, tips and what actual amp it's based on. I think it would save you a lot of time and stop people grumbling about having trouble getting their desired tone if this were implemented. I think it would be great to have especially seeing as there are sooo many amps that no one could be expected to be familiar with all the quirks and perks of them all.
 
Well I be damned !
You were right.
The usa pre yellow and green sounds great when you
activate sag. They sounded like crapp before I knew
they didn't have a poweramp sim on.

In fact they sound like I allways thought a mark
Amp should . I used to reconfigure the
Power amp on my own boogies to a normal presence curcuit
etc etc.

Great news :lol


A Boogie power section is quite different than a Marshall power section and the Mark models won't get you there. However, the USA Pre models will. Those models use a conventional power amp model (since that's what I like). Be sure to set the Sag to some nonzero value.
 
Well I be damned !
You were right.
The usa pre yellow and green sounds great when you
activate sag. They sounded like crapp before I knew
they didn't have a poweramp sim on.

In fact they sound like I allways thought a mark
Amp should . I used to reconfigure the
Power amp on my own boogies to a normal presence curcuit
etc etc.

Great news :lol

Wow! I totally disagree. When I turn the sag on with the pre models it instantly loses all life and becomes thin and nasally. If I keep supply sag on PA or all the way down, it has depth and body and is very easy to dial in a great tone. Now I don't know if it sounds like a triaxis should but it sounds amazing to me. Supply sag ON ruins these amp models for me so much that I wonder if we are talking about the same amp model.
 
I wish the Axe Fx 2 had the Mesa Boogie Roadster because it has a presence knob. I used to own both Roadster and Dual Recto and in my opinion the Roadster was a better sounding amp
 
I wish the Axe Fx 2 had the Mesa Boogie Roadster because it has a presence knob. I used to own both Roadster and Dual Recto and in my opinion the Roadster was a better sounding amp

i had a roadster too. will v10's Dynamic Presence control do it for you?
 
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