Two questions about the amp block

[laxu]

1. Why is the default for the drive control 5.98 at least when doubleclicking it in Axe-Edit. Why not 5.00?

2. Why do I have to turn the amp block level way down, up to -16 db to keep some amp models like the Blackface from clipping the Axe-Fx? Even with pretty normal settings for a clean tone like everything on 5 including master volume.

 

[marshall2553]

2. Why do I have to turn the amp block level way down, up to -16 db to keep some amp models like the Blackface from clipping the Axe-Fx? Even with pretty normal settings for a clean tone like everything on 5 including master volume.

Only guess I have is that some models compress more than others in the power stage simulation. The ones with less natural compression need their level dropped down to avoid clipping.

 

[AndrewSimon]

All Clean amps (real or modeled) have much less compression then higher gain amps.
It's the nature of the beast.
Tube distortion is nothing more then heavy compression.
(we "over-drive" the tube beyond it's limits)

 

[laxu]

I find it's usually low notes, especially palm muted ones that are more likely to clip, probably due to having more bass than compressed overdriven tones.

How do you guys deal with this? How to do you set cleans vs overdriven tones so that neither is too quiet?

 

[javajunkie]

I find it's usually low notes, especially palm muted ones that are more likely to clip, probably due to having more bass than compressed overdriven tones.

How do you guys deal with this? How to do you set cleans vs overdriven tones so that neither is too quiet?

Set your volume so that the clean tones that are now clipping no longer clip. Adjust your other presets to that. You can turn up the output knob on the front of the axe-fx to compensate. A compressor can also help keep peaks from clipping.

 

[too_much_power]

I find it's usually low notes, especially palm muted ones that are more likely to clip, probably due to having more bass than compressed overdriven tones.

How do you guys deal with this? How to do you set cleans vs overdriven tones so that neither is too quiet?

You probably have and immense amount of bass in your high gain presets. Maybe you can't hear it because your monitoring system is not up to the task, or maybe you just like to make the building shake . Cut at 50-150hz, reduce resonance, etc.

First set the volume of your cleanest presets, set their volume so that when strumming the hardest you can play doesn't clip at all, then reduce something like 3dbs just to be sure. Set your overdriven presets comparing them to the clean ones.

 

[Arjan]

First set the volume of your cleanest presets, set their volume so that when strumming the hardest you can play doesn't clip at all, then reduce something like 3dbs just to be sure. Set your overdriven presets comparing them to the clean ones.

What I do is set the amp block volume so that it is more or less the same as the volume when I press the bypass button. So when I dial in my tones (clean or overdrive), I sometimes press the bypass button, to check that my volume bypassed is still the same as with the amp block + cab etc. active. All my presets are then at the same level, and I never have any clipping problems.

 

[Dpoirier]

First set the volume of your cleanest presets, set their volume so that when strumming the hardest you can play doesn't clip at all, then reduce something like 3dbs just to be sure. Set your overdriven presets comparing them to the clean ones.

What I do is set the amp block volume so that it is more or less the same as the volume when I press the bypass button. So when I dial in my tones (clean or overdrive), I sometimes press the bypass button, to check that my volume bypassed is still the same as with the amp block + cab etc. active. All my presets are then at the same level, and I never have any clipping problems.

That's frigging brilliant! I always struggled trying to level my patches, because you can't always go back to the one reference point (say, preset 001) once you're in the higher patch numbers (say, 127). And if you refer to the previous patch, you drift significantly as you go along. Referring to something that is *always* at your fingertips (i.e. bypass) is a great idea. Thanks for that.

Just one question (though I'll find out for myself as soon as I finish typing this, and jump on my Axe to try it out): how low a level is that, compared to the factory presets for example? Because if it's substantially lower, then you may start having a lower signal-to-noise ratio (which means the noise gets further amplified as you feed out to powerful amps or powered monitors)...

Thanks for the tip.

 

[Smilzo]

how low a level is that, compared to the factory presets for example? Because if it's substantially lower, then you may start having a lower signal-to-noise ratio...

STN ratio is related to INPUT signal, controlled by INPUT level knob.
Some factory patches seems louder. It depends on the mix/material. Cleans tend to cut thru the mix better, distorted needs to have a higher perceived level to cut the same once on stage.

 

[Arjan]

That's frigging brilliant! I always struggled trying to level my patches, because you can't always go back to the one reference point (say, preset 001) once you're in the higher patch numbers (say, 127). And if you refer to the previous patch, you drift significantly as you go along. Referring to something that is *always* at your fingertips (i.e. bypass) is a great idea. Thanks for that.

Just one question (though I'll find out for myself as soon as I finish typing this, and jump on my Axe to try it out): how low a level is that, compared to the factory presets for example? Because if it's substantially lower, then you may start having a lower signal-to-noise ratio (which means the noise gets further amplified as you feed out to powerful amps or powered monitors)...

Thanks for the tip.

Thanks Dpoirier. The level of my own presets is slightly lower than the factory presets. But FWIW, the factory presets also differ in level, so I'm hesitant to use them as a ground truth for level setting. By using the bypass level as ground truth, it is very simple to get equal levels on all your presets. I was also struggling with getting the same level just like you, until I started using this method. I do not notice extra noise. Even for recording this is perfectly fine for me, thanks to the excellent quality of components in the Axe.

Also note that I do this in the context of using presets in a "virtual pedalboard" fashion. I adjust each basic preset so that amp + cab is the same level as bypassed. But then I can switch on-off boost/drive/other effects in various places, which may increase volume again when I want to. I can roll off the volume on my guitar to get a cleaner sound, put volume full on for the basic patch sound, add boost/drive etc. for more volume and/or grit. This results in a very dynamic patch with lots of possibilities for volume/grit adjustments. I don't get any output clipping and in my experience the signal-to-noise ratio is still very low.

I'm curious to hear about your experience with this method.

 

[too_much_power]

First set the volume of your cleanest presets, set their volume so that when strumming the hardest you can play doesn't clip at all, then reduce something like 3dbs just to be sure. Set your overdriven presets comparing them to the clean ones.

What I do is set the amp block volume so that it is more or less the same as the volume when I press the bypass button. So when I dial in my tones (clean or overdrive), I sometimes press the bypass button, to check that my volume bypassed is still the same as with the amp block + cab etc. active. All my presets are then at the same level, and I never have any clipping problems.

Although it's a good idea and very practical, this way you might not get all the output the axefx has got to offer. According to some members of the forum, some power stages do not open up until you send them a very hot signal into them.

Now that I think about it, when you hit the bypass button, the volume depends directly on your guitar's output, so changing guitars might change the balance and/or send your presets into clipping or leave your presets with very low output wasting a lot of headroom. Adjusting the input knob wouldn't be a definite solution because the input meter controls the peaks, not the perceived volume. Some guitars don't have the dynamic range of others and compress a lot more.

 

[Arjan]

Although it's a good idea and very practical, this way you might not get all the output the axefx has got to offer. According to some members of the forum, some power stages do not open up until you send them a very hot signal into them.

I can imagine this could be a problem for some users. I'm using the Axe into an FRFR monitor and I don't have any volume issues. The output knob allows for a high output volume, and the XLR out is also quite hot.

Now that I think about it, when you hit the bypass button, the volume depends directly on your guitar's output, so changing guitars might change the balance and/or send your presets into clipping or leave your presets with very low output wasting a lot of headroom. Adjusting the input knob wouldn't be a definite solution because the input meter controls the peaks, not the perceived volume. Some guitars don't have the dynamic range of others and compress a lot more.

True... but this holds for all presets, regardless of how you set the volume in the preset blocks itself. I just like to remove a variable from the equation to allow for a more consistent setup. I have several very different guitars (strat, ES335, LP, tele, acoustic), and I have noted down the input gain knob setting for each of these guitars to match as good as possible in terms of input level. Also, I tend to differentiate between presets dialed in for single coil guitars vs. presets for guitars with humbuckers.

 

[Plankis]

What I do is set the amp block volume so that it is more or less the same as the volume when I press the bypass button. So when I dial in my tones (clean or overdrive), I sometimes press the bypass button, to check that my volume bypassed is still the same as with the amp block + cab etc. active. All my presets are then at the same level, and I never have any clipping problems.

Anyone Wiki'd this yet? Brilliant idea, definitely going to do this later. Can't see anything wrong with it. There's always a constant volume to go back to by simply pressing a button. Since you've setup the presets for one guitar all presets should have a similar perceived volume to each other with other guitars aswell, so it would mean just using the input knob or the global gain if it's too loud or quiet.
S/N can't be any problem since axe-fx plays in 24bit, right?
Not sure if "power stages" suggests FRFR or poweramp->cab. But if you're going FRFR and are afraid of missing some goodies from the input sensitive blocks. Then use the Mix Level in the layout, it's post-everything.
Never used the axefx with a poweramp so don't know if it is input sensitive or not, but use the Global Gain and/or output knob if you want to drive it harder if it is.

 

[Jay Mitchell]

Although it's a good idea and very practical, this way you might not get all the output the axefx has got to offer.

The Axe-Fx can easily produce enough output to drive any power amp well beyond clipping. Measures taken to prevent internal clipping in the Axe-Fx will not change this.

 

[Arjan]

Anyone Wiki'd this yet? Brilliant idea, definitely going to do this later. Can't see anything wrong with it. There's always a constant volume to go back to by simply pressing a button. Since you've setup the presets for one guitar all presets should have a similar perceived volume to each other with other guitars aswell, so it would mean just using the input knob or the global gain if it's too loud or quiet. S/N can't be any problem since axe-fx plays in 24bit, right?

I didn't know what would be the right place in the Wiki, but for now I've added it as a general tip. Regarding your question related to noise: I don't have any issue with that. If there is any noise, the main source is probably your guitar and this is regulated through the input gain, which is a factor independent of what your settings are in your presets and your output levels.

If more people like this method, I could post a poll in the wish list for adapting the volume for the factory presets to follow the model of preset volume = bypass volume.

 

[Dutch]

Arjan, are you compensating for the volume drop with the global outputs? Or Layout Mix Main? It is a huge drop. I'm dropping non-clipping presets -16 dB to get them near bypass level.

 

[laurent]

hi, i'm a french man. can anyone explain to me the "ARJAN" method in french please.
thanks a lot.
laurent.