Tuner issues - tuners disagree from each other

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Several posts above yours I stated the tuner isn't designed to be an intonation tool. It's designed to tune a guitar at a gig and it works extremely well for that purpose.
Sorry I missed that, and glad you deserved the out I had built in. I truly understand both sides and happy either way.
 
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Several posts above yours I stated the tuner isn't designed to be an intonation tool. It's designed to tune a guitar at a gig and it works extremely well for that purpose.
Fwiw I find it better than any tuner I've owned even for intonation (never had high end ones though). Anyway, being picky about a 0.6 cents error is silly imho, especially on an instrument that is imperfect by nature like guitar
 
I’d bet that many of us probably used a Boss TU-2 for a long time. That had an accuracy of +/- 3 cents. That means you had a 6-cent window to deal with, which is perceptible, and yet we all managed to make music and find the joy.

I don’t use a set of calipers and a microscope to test if a bed is sturdy enough for rock and roll, if you catch my drift 😉
 
I'll have to try applying offsets to the tuner calibration to get to 425hz. And then have to rememeber to undo them when I want to get back to 440 for other bands.
 
But now imagine your main guitar gets dropped and you notice the neck is a bit twisted. The open notes are in tune still but you want to at least check your intonation before moving to your backup guitar because that one doesn't sound as nice. Wouldn't you want to double-check the intonation in a few seconds before starting the song?

That’s an absolute NO. Check the open strings tuning and go.
 
That’s an absolute NO. Check the open strings tuning and go.
Something like this happened to me, but not during a gig. The truss rod slipped out a hair which would make most strings flat, but the neck was twisted after a brutal drop sharpening the outside strings back up to mostly tune. I only noticed the neck was now twisted (and hairline crack) because the most important ringing note was now flat during a solo, because the intonation was now off, yet the open strings were in tune. Ah college days...
So be warned.
 
Yeah the Axe III's tuner is more than accurate enough for practical usage. Guitars are by nature imperfectly tuned instruments. Strings rise and fall in pitch with each pluck and fretted notes never intonate perfectly all over the neck. The slightest change in pick attack or fretting pressure and you can exceed +/- 1 cent anyway. Even the weight of your hand on the neck is enough to affect tuning at that level. Extreme measuring precision is really only useful when what you are measuring isn't constantly changing. It's like trying to measure the length of an earthworm while it crawls. At some point you're just wasting your time.
 
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I remember the TC polytune had this weird phenomenon where each individual string would tune perfectly, but in poly mode (all strings at once) the low E would always register as sharp. They did a bunch of research and discovered that guitarist were resting their finger on the peg getting ready to tune, and that was enough pressure to change the tuning of string.
 
Guitars are by nature imperfectly tuned instruments. Strings rise and fall in pitch with each pluck and fretted notes never intonate perfectly all over the neck. [...] Extreme measuring precision is really only useful when what you are measuring isn't constantly changing. It's like trying to measure the length of an earthworm while it crawls. At some point you're just wasting your time.
Just wondering "in theory"...:
If you know things can be off to either side, isn't that really the best reason to strive for perfection while measuring, so it will empower you to (globally) intonate to the best possible average case instead of an edge case that may veer off even further if you allow that tolerance?

OTOH, I guess in practice the edge case may be on either end from fret to fret..., but it might still allow you to pick a better average, which might also be why people check more than one place on the neck and don't go for perfection in just one spot.

Blowing it off reminds me of people amassing one unhealthy habit after another, then claiming, "You have to die of something..."

No attack on you though -- just wondering in theory. IOW, wouldn't perfection be ideal here too?

OTOH, if worst case deviation is still within your (producer's) standards -- great.
 
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For what it's worth, I only use the stone tuner, and I only ever use it to tune my open high E, then I tune the guitar by ear to itself using fourths and fifths with high gain to accentuate the beats in dissonance. I recheck the high E as I go along. If the tuner that shows up in regular editing pages shows in off and I can hear a problem, I open the strobe to check. I have an FC12, but I still just use the strobe on the front panel.

I'm crazy about intonation, and I've had two Buzz Feiten system guitars (a holy grail Washburn USA P3 and now a Washburn Parallaxe Trevor Rabin), and I find the system to help immensely; too bad it never caught on more.

This is a very personal thing, but I use my ear for intonation too. I use fretted notes at the 5th and 17th on the high E and just tweak until they sound right, then I play 4ths and 5ths between the B and high E, adjusting the B until those intervals harmonize in tune as far up the neck as practical. I continue to each lower pitch adjacent string with 4ths and fifths on high gain until I hit the low E.

I've always wanted to try a True Temperament neck to get much closer with M3rds and M3rds, but I like my method.

Since I constantly reference the high E to a tuner, then I check the rest of the strings against it in context, my guitar sounds very in tune. I generally play an open E power chord: low E, 2nd fret of the A and D, mute the G, open B and high E, then an open G power chord: 3rd fret of the low E, open D and G, to check that the G is in the ballpark, then I fine tune the G by playing its most troublesome spots: open G against 1st fret of the B, and 2nd fret of the G against 5th fret of the B. Again, I double check that high E constantly against the tuner as I do this.

This tension between the two trouble spots on the G really help smooth it out to being as strongly in tune as a bastard string like that can be. It oscillates in a less stable way than any other string, since it's so thick for being unwound. I find that the open G / 1st fret of B 4th wants a the G to be sharper than the 2nd fret of G / 5th fret of B 5th interval, so I go between that 4th and 5th quite a bit, tuning the G up with the 4th and down with with 5th until it balances as well as possibly between the two, playing hard and soft. And to clarify, when I say "tune down," I move the tuning peg below the target pitch, stretch the string, then tune up to the desired pitch from there, so technically I always tune up to pitch no matter what.

When I play with my Floyd, that's a different ballgame, but still I just tune to myself by ear, using the strobe to set a reference for the high E only.

All of musical tuning is based on compromise and trying to maximize harmony between the most mathematically stable internal intervals in the overtone series, so you're strongest are always the octave and fifth. Interesting to consider that in the Renaissance the perfect fourth was considered dissonant! The main thing is, as with all considerations in audio and music, how it strikes an audience. A more in tune guitar always sounds more powerful and professional, and any duet, group or ensemble sounds stronger when they're aware of and in control of how they are handling their harmonic relationships between the members. This is one reason I'm an insane dickhead about programming the pitch block for my myself by ear, getting it technicality sharp or flat as far as the computer is concerned, until it actual sounds pleasing, and when I use diatonic harmonies I'll check, for the context of a part, whether equal or just temperament works better for the intervals I'm landing on. This is a huge power within the Fractal products.
 
For a gig, you definitely should have a backup guitar for every tuning. But now imagine your main guitar gets dropped and you notice the neck is a bit twisted. The open notes are in tune still but you want to at least check your intonation before moving to your backup guitar because that one doesn't sound as nice. Wouldn't you want to double-check the intonation in a few seconds before starting the song?
Sure, and in that case being +/- 6 cents would be close enough and I'd carry on with the show.

But also, you don't need a tuner to check intonation. Play the 12th harmonic, then play the fretted 12th. Are they drastically different or about the same? If it's the same then your intonation is fine.

I've always wanted to try a True Temperament neck to get much closer with M3rds and M3rds, but I like my method.

The thing that always gets me about "True Temperament" is it can only possibly be in tune for a single key, right? Because in another key the sharpened major 3rd becomes a sharpened 5th. That versatility of keys is the reason equal temperament exists. Though oddly nothing I've ever seen has been able to tell me which key True Temperament is built for.
 
The thing that always gets me about "True Temperament" is it can only possibly be in tune for a single key, right? Because in another key the sharpened major 3rd becomes a sharpened 5th. That versatility of keys is the reason equal temperament exists. Though oddly nothing I've ever seen has been able to tell me which key True Temperament is built for.

Totally true. And I'm not sure how well it works either; I'm just going on the assumption your major and minor thirds are better with an open string root. Hell, I should just go for a Vigier fretless one day haha.
 
Sure, and in that case being +/- 6 cents would be close enough and I'd carry on with the show.
For me as well. That would've been fine. But it wasn't. I remember checking it after and was shocked at how off it was. Something like more than 15 cents off. Some might not even notice but it killed that solo mojo dead in its tracks for me. :oops:
 
But also, you don't need a tuner to check intonation. Play the 12th harmonic, then play the fretted 12th. Are they drastically different or about the same? If it's the same then your intonation is fine.
Of course you're right. Personally, I'm too neurotic to trust my hearing right before playing. I'd want to check with the tuner.
 
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