Tremolo and staying in tune

Harm said:
Hi all,

Let me refrain from embellishments and ask straightforward: I am looking for a new guitar. I am very interested in a Suhr. However, having owned a music man silhouette and owning a fender strat elite now I am not convinced a non locking trem system kan keep a guitar in tune. Most demos of suhr guitars (and other high end guitars) they do not use the trem. With my guitars ( locking tuners, nut lube, etc) various luthiers can’t get my guitar to stay in tune. With very moderate tremolo use it is ok-ish. Guitars that appear to stay in tune mostly go sharp or flat together. Using a tuner shows that the tuning is off though. Does anyone have a guitar with a flat mounted non- locking trem that stays in tune?
Which brand/type and how do you get that done?

Thanks, Harm
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See my recent post. John’s new design is amazing, it stayed in tune for me after divebombs. Of course it’s also a matter of setup, how the nut is cut and other contact points.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/ngd-suhr-custom-classic-s-blackmore-vibe.207811/
 
skolacki said:
I’ve never played a guitar with a roller nut. Surprised to hear they don’t work good. Jeff Beck was on his tremolo constantly up and down and didn’t seem to get of tune.
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I personally do not believe LSR does not perform well. In theory and in practice it should perform better than anything out there all else equal. It eliminates all the friction at a critical point! “All else equal” is the key here, if you have bad setup, whatever you use for the nut will not matter for tuning stability.

LSR is extremely underrated, and typically bashed by traditionalists because it looks different and admittedly adds a little extra ping to unfretted notes.
 
It looks like Gotoh, but it has several improvements under the hood for tuning stability. I can assure you it will be the most popular bridge out there until competitors replicate the improvements.

Let me ask you this @Andy Eagle , do you think it would sell well if it did not look like a 510 or any Fender two post bridge? The whole point for John’s design is to make it look like a traditional bridge while adding the critical improvements under the hood.
 
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oacikgoz said:
I personally do not believe LSR does not perform well. In theory and in practice it should perform better than anything out there all else equal. It eliminates all the friction at a critical point! “All else equal” is the key here, if you have bad setup, whatever you use for the nut will not matter for tuning stability.

LSR is extremely underrated, and typically bashed by traditionalists because it looks different and admittedly adds a little extra ping to unfretted notes.
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The ball bearing nut works very well but it requires a modification to the fingerboard which puts most people off.
 
oacikgoz said:
It looks like Gotoh, but it has several improvements under the hood for tuning stability. I can assure you it will be the most popular bridge out there until competitors replicate the improvements.

Let me ask you this @Andy Eagle , do you think it would sell well if it did not look like a 510 or any Fender two post bridge? The whole point for John’s design is to make it look like a traditional bridge while adding the critical improvements under the hood.
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There are no critical improvements at all that didn’t come from the 510.
The 510 offers deep drilling block with zero contact points between the saddles and the ball end or a traditional CRS shallow drilled block for vintage Strat tone . John has combined the two and other than that the bridges are pretty much identical in design and construction. Saddle type is your choice from 5 types on the 510 and 2 on the Suhr.
 
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Andy Eagle said:
There are no critical improvements at all that didn’t come from the 510.
The 510 offers deep drilling block with zero contact points between the saddles and the ball end or a traditional CRS shallow drilled block for vintage Strat tone . John has combined the two and other than that the bridges are pretty much identical in design and construction. Saddle type is your choice from 5 types on the 510 and 2 on the Suhr.
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I do not know where you receive your news from, but deep drilled block is not advertised as the main innovation. The innovations are,

1) the holes on saddles being at a slightly different location and bridge having a different break angle adding to tuning stability.
2) the slugs on bent saddles are not sticking out, which people have complained for several years.
3) arm location is slightly different
4) bridge is noticeably lighter than Gotoh 510.

These are what I’m aware of, there are several others.

I’m not a merchant, no point to argue. if you like Gotoh, it’s a great bridge, continue using it. Just saying what you stated is factually incorrect.
 
oacikgoz said:
I do not know where you receive your news from, but deep drilled block is not advertised as the main innovation. The innovations are,

1) the holes on saddles being at a slightly different location and bridge having a different break angle adding to tuning stability.
2) the slugs on bent saddles are not sticking out, which people have complained for several years.
3) arm location is slightly different
4) bridge is noticeably lighter than Gotoh 510.

These are what I’m aware of, there are several others.

I’m not a merchant, no point to argue. if you like Gotoh, it’s a great bridge, continue using it. Just saying what you stated is factually incorrect.
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From fitting one and the Suhr website.
Link the stuff you have listed.
https://www.suhr.com/new-suhr-bridge/
It’s pretty much identical to the 510 . Not lighter then the 510T and the other things are not different from the 510 series if you specify it.
 
oacikgoz said:
I do not know where you receive your news from, but deep drilled block is not advertised as the main innovation. The innovations are,

1) the holes on saddles being at a slightly different location and bridge having a different break angle adding to tuning stability.
2) the slugs on bent saddles are not sticking out, which people have complained for several years.
3) arm location is slightly different
4) bridge is noticeably lighter than Gotoh 510.

These are what I’m aware of, there are several others.

I’m not a merchant, no point to argue. if you like Gotoh, it’s a great bridge, continue using it. Just saying what you stated is factually incorrect.
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From fitting one and the Suhr website.
Link the stuff you have listed.
 
IMG_3841.jpegIMG_3840.jpeg
Visually practically identical and the same materials used . The only difference is as I stated above.
This is probably built by the same OEM Korean company that makes Suhr tuners..
 
oacikgoz said:
I only state my own experience, 510 isn’t even close in terms of tuning stability. Check out the test clip in my first posting. If you show me the same performance on a 510, I will shut up :)
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I set up hundreds, the thing that stops a non locking trem from staying in tune is usually the other end. I can easily get the same performance from a 510 because it is practically identical.
Those links?
 
Andy Eagle said:
I think so . But as you see above it’s not on the website.
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Posted the link above.

Don’t get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for your work and experience, I do not have nearly as much. But, this bridge is not even available to purchase anywhere yet, it’s only available from their custom shop for their guitars. Have you had a chance to look at the Suhr bridge in person without any bias or prejudice?

It is probably made in the same factory as 510, I don’t care even if it’s made in Antarctica, it’s the design and consistency that matters to me.
 
oacikgoz said:
Posted the link above.

Don’t get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for your work and experience, I do not have nearly as much. But, this bridge is not even available to purchase anywhere yet, it’s only available from their custom shop for their guitars. Have you had a chance to look at the Suhr bridge in person without any bias or prejudice?

It is probably made in the same factory as 510, I don’t care even if it’s made in Antarctica, it’s the design and consistency that matters to me.
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I have seen one on a guitar I set up.
Now I have John’s take on it . It’s like the T block and either old Hipshot saddles ( like Tyler used to do) or bent steel ones that are the same as the gotoh. The only real difference is a tapered CRS block and deep drilling. It’s still confirmed exactly what I said above. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great bridge but I stand by what I said.
 
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