Tremolo and staying in tune

Justmc said:
I have 2 Wilkinson VS100N's by Gotoh that I installed as an upgrade from the stock VS50's that came on my Carvins . Looking at the Gotoh EV510TS-BS to upgrade to . Is that the model you prefer ? Would you know if this is a direct swap ? Appears very similar . Also I see that they offer Steel or Brass saddles . Any thoughts on a preference ? Thanks for your time !
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They are usually a direct fit but it is possible to set the Wilkinson on a mount with the "open " knife edge post slightly differently placed. Warmoth used to do this. On balance I would say yes with that caveat. Post a photo directly down on the top of the existing bridge and I can tell you for sure.
 
Frodebro said:
I have a Charvel MIJ Guthrie Govan sig model with a single locking Floyd, it has a standard nut and locking tuners. It stays in tune extremely well, as do my Paul Reed Smiths with nothing locking at all. I think the key is a properly cut nut that doesn’t cause the strings to hang up.
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Funny, I looked at exactly that guitar. A dude on youtube has major tuning issues and If I recall correctly so does Levi Clay.
 
Andy Eagle said:
They are usually a direct fit but it is possible to set the Wilkinson on a mount with the "open " knife edge post slightly differently placed. Warmoth used to do this. On balance I would say yes with that caveat. Post a photo directly down on the top of the existing bridge and I can tell you for sure.
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I see lots of 510 models on Gotoh's site . Hoping to narrow it down to the ones that are compatible . I don't believe the VS1300N is available in gold finish ? I installed a Wilkinson " Convertible " trem many years ago on this guitar and it was a real hassle . I have a well cut graphite nut and Sperzel locking tuners. Stays in tune pretty well , just looking to see if better options are available.

https://g-gotoh.com/productList/tremolo-510-series/?lang=en

Thanks for all your help.
 

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Justmc said:
I see lots of 510 models on Gotoh's site . Hoping to narrow it down to the ones that are compatible . I don't believe the VS1300N is available in gold finish ? I installed a Wilkinson " Convertible " trem many years ago on this guitar and it was a real hassle . I have a well cut graphite nut and Sperzel locking tuners. Stays in tune pretty well , just looking to see if better options are available.

https://g-gotoh.com/productList/tremolo-510-series/?lang=en

Thanks for all your help.
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All the two post 510 bridges will fit.
 
I have TA S Classics Light Baby Blue (TA:s vintage tremolo and only dive and rests on body) no any problems and stay tune perfectly.
I have Ibanez LB1 VL (Gotoh® T1702 tremolo both ways working, no problems and stay tune perfectly).
I had Ibanez AZ 2402 (Gotoh® T180 tremolo and both ways working, no problems and stay tune perfectly).
I had Ibanez AT 100 with Wilkinson Gotoh VSVG tremolo, only dive and kept tune etc. perfectly).

Earlier guitars I had Ibanez JEM 7 (Lo Pro Edge tremolo, and many others no problems and they worked both ways).
One very good guitars staying tune is Ernie Ball JP 6 (and those John Petrucci models, I thing those Ernie Ball guitars bridges
are very good, I also had this JP 6 guitar). So many nice guitars I have owned.

All those guitars I used 009-042 strings, after 1 month playing made final adjustments and set correct tensions between
neck and strings. I don't know if im lucky but even after setting new set of strings (same gauge/trademark/model) guitars
keeping tune perfectly.

If everything set correctly including saddle (locking or not and fine tuners in bridge) everything should works nicely.
 
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I had a Suhr classic pro HSS that stayed amazingly well in tune with heavy tremolo use. It actually became a benchmark guitar for me in terms of Strats and tremolo usage.

I did eventually sold that guitar because i disliked how heavy it was in terms of weight for a strat (i got that guitar on a swap deal). I purchased a cheap USA Carvin T bolt Strat (these Carvin are probably one of the last great deals in the used market) to replace it.

In a lot of ways it looks like a clone of that Suhr (its also a black strat with an HSS config), i swaped the tuners and electronics (puted Suhr pickups), the bridge is one of those original wilkinson V100 gotoh models. With a good setup the guitar stays also really well in tune.

I feel like the "trick" for floating tremolo guitars are the points of friction. You have to minimize them as much as possible.

A well cutted nut is probably the most important part, most of the tuning problems start there. I prefer Strats like the Suhr that don't use string trees (therefore eleminanting a point of friction), and you have to setup well your floating tremolo ( i like a two point tremolo for better stability, although i will say that the PRS tremolo is probably the best one out there).

Also a niifty luthier trick is the use chapstick to lube your guitar nut or even the bridge saddles. It's a much cheaper alternative to big bends sauce, and 1 euro (1 dollar) chapstick will last you a lifetime (just use it with a toothpick).
 
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Budda said:
@Andy Eagle would you say the string trees are interfering with tuning stability on most strats? Trying to make sense of what I am reading in this thread.
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Basically yes. You can polish the underside and raise the hight so they don't cause too much friction . Better with staggered tuners though. If I have them on a strat I don't run the strings under them.
 
2204JCM said:
I've had a roller nut it. Does not solve this issue. I guess it helps if your nut isn't cut properly. Otherwise no.
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I’ve never played a guitar with a roller nut. Surprised to hear they don’t work good. Jeff Beck was on his tremolo constantly up and down and didn’t seem to get of tune.
 
skolacki said:
I’ve never played a guitar with a roller nut. Surprised to hear they don’t work good. Jeff Beck was on his tremolo constantly up and down and didn’t seem to get of tune.
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There is a lot more to staying in tune than just solving problems associated with the nut. If it was that simple most everyone would be using one by now.
On a Strat type bridge the stings don't necessarily go back to their exact same position (on the saddles) when you dive the trem. The best solution for that part of the problem is to have a way to lock the string on that end. Floyd Rose has that solution on the Charvel Guthrie Goven model. Gotoh has a solution where you don't need to cut the ball ends off to lock the strings.
Locking tuners help solve the problem on the other end. But you still need a properly cut nut. If you aren't using locking tuners wrap the tuning posts with as few turns as needed. Each string is different.
If you don't have the string locked at the bridge then pushing down on the strings to create a "memory" (kink) in strings as they come over the saddles helps. Do the same thing on the tuner side of the nut.
 
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It sounds like you're experiencing some frustration with tuning stability, especially with non-locking trem systems. Suhr guitars are definitely high-quality instruments, but your concerns are valid given your past experiences. Here are a few points to consider:

  1. Set-Up and Maintenance: Proper setup is crucial. Make sure the guitar is set up by a professional who understands your playing style and the specific demands you place on the tremolo system. Sometimes, minor adjustments in the setup can make a significant difference.
  2. Nut and Bridge: Ensure that the nut is properly cut and lubricated, and the bridge is functioning smoothly. Binding at the nut is a common issue that can affect tuning stability.
  3. Tuning Stability Techniques: There are techniques that can help with tuning stability. For instance, after using the tremolo, you can do a gentle pull-up to help the strings return to pitch.
  4. String Trees and Retainers: Adding or adjusting string trees or retainers can help improve the angle and tension of the strings, which can contribute to better tuning stability.
  5. Quality of Components: High-quality components, like those used in Suhr guitars, do generally contribute to better tuning stability.
  6. Consider Locking Systems: If tuning stability with a non-locking tremolo continues to be a significant issue, you might want to reconsider a guitar with a locking tremolo system, even if it's not your first choice aesthetically or in terms of feel.
From my experience, brands like PRS (Paul Reed Smith) and some high-end Ibanez models are known for having non-locking tremolo systems that can hold tuning well with proper setup and care.

Ultimately, it might also be worth consulting directly with a luthier who has specific experience with high-end guitars and tremolo systems to get personalized advice and setup recommendations.

Hope this helps, and best of luck finding the perfect guitar!

Cheers!
 
Landon said:
It sounds like you're experiencing some frustration with tuning stability, especially with non-locking trem systems. Suhr guitars are definitely high-quality instruments, but your concerns are valid given your past experiences. Here are a few points to consider:

  1. Set-Up and Maintenance: Proper setup is crucial. Make sure the guitar is set up by a professional who understands your playing style and the specific demands you place on the tremolo system. Sometimes, minor adjustments in the setup can make a significant difference.
  2. Nut and Bridge: Ensure that the nut is properly cut and lubricated, and the bridge is functioning smoothly. Binding at the nut is a common issue that can affect tuning stability.
  3. Tuning Stability Techniques: There are techniques that can help with tuning stability. For instance, after using the tremolo, you can do a gentle pull-up to help the strings return to pitch.
  4. String Trees and Retainers: Adding or adjusting string trees or retainers can help improve the angle and tension of the strings, which can contribute to better tuning stability.
  5. Quality of Components: High-quality components, like those used in Suhr guitars, do generally contribute to better tuning stability.
  6. Consider Locking Systems: If tuning stability with a non-locking tremolo continues to be a significant issue, you might want to reconsider a guitar with a locking tremolo system, even if it's not your first choice aesthetically or in terms of feel.
From my experience, brands like PRS (Paul Reed Smith) and some high-end Ibanez models are known for having non-locking tremolo systems that can hold tuning well with proper setup and care.

Ultimately, it might also be worth consulting directly with a luthier who has specific experience with high-end guitars and tremolo systems to get personalized advice and setup recommendations.

Hope this helps, and best of luck finding the perfect guitar!

Cheers!
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My experience with this is that most Luthiers aren't that good at solving Strat trem/ tuning issues.
 
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