Took the plunge...going stereo!

V

Vegas Bob

Member
I love the AxeFXll. I felt like I was missing out though running mono. I decided I had to build a stereo rig. So I've sold my Atomic Block and now have the Atomic 50/50. Two new Avatar 1-12's show up tomorrow.

Has anybody built a rig like this? Any suggestions on the best way to get the most out of a stereo rig?

I'll report the results in a week or so...
 
Placement is important. To me anyway. Of the speakers that is. As for your signal chain... Ping pong delays are awesome. Stereo chorus is awesome. Heck, everything is awesome. Just enjoy I would say.


I'm a high gain djent djent meedley meedely meedely type player...

Sent from my iPod.
 
+1, placement is indeed important. Stereo is GREAT!!! :D I can't see myself NOT using stereo again....just too much fun!~ :p
 
What shotgunn said. Stereo is a whole 'nother experience. Just don't expect it to translate well in too many venues. :)
 
Are you playing alone at home or do you play with a band as well ?
Stereo is great fun at home - hopeless live.
When going stereo watch the placement both with regards to the distance between the 2 cabs in order to get a good stereo separation and the placement of the cabs in relation to your position, the room and so on.
When playing live just go to the i/o menu select copy l->r so you have dual mono, that enables you to have a better monitoring on stage as you can enlarge your sweet spot. Remember to bypass any effects that might be good in a stereo patch, but could ruin a mono patch - like enhancers and the like.
Stereo live is hopeless because the sound washes out, the sweet spot is extremely narrow and you lose a sense of the physical centerpoint of your sound. So mono or dual mono is far far better for live use.
If you insist on having stereo effects live, go to a 3 way wet-dry-wet rig, but its bigger and more expensive, as you'll need another poweramp and another cab.
What live settings do you play in ?
I ask this because unless you only play at home or you are going to use your setup as a backline, the FOH tech has to mic 3 cabs for a w-d-w rig to sound good for the audience and not just to you, depending on your tech that might be an issue.
Also if you are your own roadie and tech a w-d-w rig with real cabs and power amps means you are going to be hauling a lot of gear yourself - if you got roadies or don't mind the lifting involved, go for it; a well balanced w-d-w rig sounds absolutely glorious both on stage but especially through the FOH.
Or even better; make live patches with a tap with mono effects to output 2 for monitoring yourself on stage and a set of full stereo w-d-w taps (meaning amps dry center, with stereo effects in parallel paned hard right and left) to output1 that you send direct to the FOH. That way you only need to bring a mono setup to monitor yourself, but the FOH and thus the audience still get all the benefits of a w-d-w rig.
 
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Stereo is AWESOME!!! Rocket Brother has some good points about using it live however, but all is not lost... IMO, you can run a simple stereo config live as long as you 'limit' the extent of your stereo effects... If you want a serious back and forth ping pong thing, then it will be hard for the audience because there will only be a few people in the "sweet spot" and everyone else will hear half the story... My reco is to utilize your internal mixer for subtle stereo delays or chorus, but mix them in lightly, allowing mostly a dry signal to be present. This way, the audience (and yourself depending on your monitor situation) will still hear mostly a dry signal, with the subtle delay/verb/effect in stereo. It's kind of the best of both worlds IMO... And at home, you can go crazy and really get lost in a swirling dance of dizzyness!
 
Well the approach I have is - isn't it all going to be mixed in stereo for the audience anyways?

I know that there may be phase cancellations going on, I know that there will be sweet spots, and I know that the soundguy is going to throw a hissy fit :lol:

I guess I've been lucky so far, but it hasn't really been an issue so far. But context is important - I treat the L and R as two almost separate fields, and not really as one 'stereo' one. I don't use wide and crazy stereo effects, and nothing is really hard panned. Don't know if this helps at all.

Maybe sc09 might give some insight?
 
Thanks for all of the advice. Much appreciated!

My AxeFX ll rig is only used in the studio. I don't play out at least for now. Part of the reason I went the stereo route was I was using a 2-12 Avatar cab. Going to 1-12's will make it a little easier to transport. It will fit in my car where 2-12 wouldn't make it.

Last year I built a wet/dry rig where the wet was stereo. This was before AxeFX. Really great. I just wanted to get back to that huge soundstage with the AxeFX. Nothing quite like it.

I'm just sitting at home waiting for the cabs to arrive today. I'm loading one with a Scumback H55 which is what I've been using. The second cab is getting an Austin Speaker Works KTS 60. Both are basically high end G12H30's based on 55hz. The Scumback is rated at 65 watts, the ASW at 80 watts. We'll see how they do. I already love the Scumback.

I'll write up a detailed report once I get it dialed in...
 
G12H's?!?! IR CAPTURE!!!! :D

Sorry, I have a weak spot for them :p they are one of my fav speakers Hehehe
 
jon said:
Well the approach I have is - isn't it all going to be mixed in stereo for the audience anyways?

I know that there may be phase cancellations going on, I know that there will be sweet spots, and I know that the soundguy is going to throw a hissy fit :lol:

I guess I've been lucky so far, but it hasn't really been an issue so far. But context is important - I treat the L and R as two almost separate fields, and not really as one 'stereo' one. I don't use wide and crazy stereo effects, and nothing is really hard panned. Don't know if this helps at all.

Maybe sc09 might give some insight?
Click to expand...

Jon - each to his own, and what works for you works for you - that's cool.
But consider this, yes the audience hears a stereo mix, but with thats a stereo band mix, not just a stereo guitar mix - there's a very big difference.
If you use anything but a smidge of stereo effects on your guitar stereo mix, you wash out the physical center of your guitar sound, and that makes it disappear or wash out in the stereo band mix.
If you only use a smidge of effects there is probably not going to be a problem, but then on the other side it won't hardly make a difference whether you run the effects stereo or mono, so why bother carrying the extra cabinet and having the fuzz of micing it ?
The way you describe using it "as two almost separate fields" is awfully close to the dual mono concept that I proposed the OP for live work. Your version of dual mono might be two slightly different mono paths, but if creating two different mono paths instead of just one mono path is important to your sound, which half of the audience is the lucky half or do both halves of the audience loose out (?), as all but a very very very few in the audience will only hear one of your "two different mono rigs" and thus only one side/half of your effects.
I have toured with very different rigs, anything from just the Axe Fx to a small combo with a pedalboard all the way to elaborate multi amp multi effects rack systems, and I can tell you, that if you go out front during soundcheck and hear the FOH sound the difference between a good mono rig or a w-d-w rig to a stereo rig is huge.
With the stereo rig the guitar more often than not loose it's place in the band mix and gets muddy, whereas with a mono or w-d-w rig, you can (if the FOH tech is competent anyway) clearly tell where the guitars place/position is in the stereo band mix. YMMV of cause.
 
@Vegas Bob
Sounds like you are going to have a very sweet studio setup - congrats and enjoy - and do share your experience with it once you have lived with it for a little while.
While I haven´t tried an ASW, I love the Scumback H55, it sounded absolutely fantastic when I tried it in combination with a Skrydstrup OD50 tube amp.
I second Jon's wish for IR captures :)
 
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Appreciate the insight. That's actually pretty much what I do and how I run it. I don't pan hard, and there is some bleed thru on the l and r fields, so the audience will hear a bit of either no matter where they are. My fx are very minimal, and you can barely tell theyre there. I also send sub mixes to FoH at times, which perhaps makes things easier. To put things into context, I also mix for live bands, so I know some of the problems and some of the solutions. I have not yet tried a wet dry wet rig yet, but I feel inclined to do so now! ;)
 
Phase cancellation is not your friend, placement is big like others have said.

Dream IR capture, the asw alnico absolute, and the asw Crossroads.
 
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I have a stereo rig and love it at home but not live. as I have mentioned before in an interview with Satriani he said the best thing he ever done for his tone and audience, was to quit trying to send a stereo image to the audience. As far as pa's, 95% I've seen are run mono.
 
Just a quick preliminary report...
Here's the rig. AxeFX ll, MFC-101 foot controller w/3 Mission pedals, Atomic 50/50 amp, 2 Avatar 1-12's. One with a Scumback 65 watt H55, the other a ASW KTS60.

First thing, the speakers are very similar, great bottom end, very high quality. Pretty much a tie. When I first got my AxeFX I auditioned a bunch of speakers with an Atomic Block including Vintage 30's, Blues, Mojotone, Scumback M75, Atomic Wedge and a few more. Clear winner was the Scumback. If I was going mono on stage I'd use the Atomic 50/50 and a 2-12 loaded with Scumbacks, one H55 and one M75, 65 watts each so they don't break up.

Now to the stereo rig. My purpose is only studio use. It took us a few placement attempts to create the best stereo image. Eventually we found that aiming the speakers at the "sweet spot" as opposed to aimed straight ahead created the largest area where the stereo image was excellent. In my studio they are about 7" apart and I sit 10" away.
The sweet spot is wide enough for three people to really hear the great image.

After changing the EQ a bit the system really came alive. All of the effects we tried that take advantage of stereo really opened things up. Ping Pong Delay, Roto, Chorus are all stunning. The effects running in stereo do require some adjustment, a little less in the mix is better a rule so far.

As good as the AxeFX effects sounded running in mono there is really no comparison. Stereo really brings out all of the quality. Two hours into it and I don't think I could go back to mono in the studio.

I'm still dialing in patches after upgrading to 4.01. It's going to be a fun weekend. More later...
 
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